X5R Workflow Notes

[BrenMyster]

Hey, Just a quick question as I recently got a x5r.

"2) Run SlimRaw on imported directories and output Premiere comparable, lossless compression and delete imported directories created in Step 1. Result is 600% space savings over CineLight Premiere import but still lossless. Also 6% smaller than straight DNG import."

What setting are you using to save 600% space, or am i reading this wrong?

Cheers

 

[damoncooper]

Hey, Just a quick question as I recently got a x5r.

"2) Run SlimRaw on imported directories and output Premiere comparable, lossless compression and delete imported directories created in Step 1. Result is 600% space savings over CineLight Premiere import but still lossless. Also 6% smaller than straight DNG import."

What setting are you using to save 600% space, or am i reading this wrong?

Cheers

Compressed vs CineLight "Premiere" output, which is uncompressed

 

[dronealps]

Like Damoncooper says export the raw footage from camera to DNG sequence using Cinelight. Then use Resolve to export to ProRes. Use ProRes 422HQ for delivery. Or ProRes 4444 if you plan on process the footage further. Other than that, both format look identical to the human eye.

I would plan on a few test flights before the shoot.
In UDH format I have had some missing DNG frames. I am still investigating the cause.
Panning speed has to be very slow to keep the strobing effect to a minimum. I have not found yet my sweet spot with NDs/FPS/ISO/F-stop
If you are planning for 40 flights, make sure you practice your download workflow in the field. It is extremely slow with the current utilities (cinelight for Mac and the windows version). If money is no object to get a handful of SSDs then you have no problem.
Lastly, be very frugal with your footage, plan the shot and record only the shot.

If you know all that already, forgive me, I am just passing what what I have learned so far. Not trying to patronize anyone. This kind of thread is really beneficial to the community at large. Good luck with your shoot and let us know the lessons you learned.

Hi, regarding the "sweet spot" for reduced strobing, have you found it? P.s. Thanks for the tips by the way!

 

[Cactuswest]

Hi, regarding the "sweet spot" for reduced strobing, have you found it? P.s. Thanks for the tips by the way!

Not really yet but adhering to shutter speed at twice the FPS is a good start. Also viewing your 4k footage on a 4k tv might help a lot too.

 

[Oesau]

@damoncooper - interesting in your thoughts and potential advice/direction on this (it's more of a hardware tech question but it does relate to the challenges of the workflow): I import into Premiere using CineLight Premiere export, I do the import into Adobe Premier but even if I do a ingest (proxy file) playback is just extremely jumpy.

Now the obvious thing here is hardware: Win 10, 32Gb RAM, i7 (Quad - hyperthreaded), operating system and Adobe running off a SSD, the Premier project and RAW files are on another SSD, Graphics card is Nivida GTX 980 ti (6Gb).

From a spec point of view I feel that the PC has got a reasonable level of power, it's however just not performing. Can you suggest where I could go (other people/forums) to find a resolution to this?

 

[niki]

@damoncooper - interesting in your thoughts and potential advice/direction on this (it's more of a hardware tech question but it does relate to the challenges of the workflow): I import into Premiere using CineLight Premiere export, I do the import into Adobe Premier but even if I do a ingest (proxy file) playback is just extremely jumpy.

Now the obvious thing here is hardware: Win 10, 32Gb RAM, i7 (Quad - hyperthreaded), operating system and Adobe running off a SSD, the Premier project and RAW files are on another SSD, Graphics card is Nivida GTX 980 ti (6Gb).

From a spec point of view I feel that the PC has got a reasonable level of power, it's however just not performing. Can you suggest where I could go (other people/forums) to find a resolution to this?

If your proxies are not paying smooth I guess you are using video codec that is not supported by your hardware acceleration (nvidia).
On a PC laptop I'm rendering using DNxHD LQ at 1080p and the proxies are playing smooth.
At work we are using mac's and rendering proxies using ProRes 422.
The main idea is to have your nvidia to handle all calculations but sometimes simple reducing of the data rate inside codec settings is enough to play smooth.

 

[Oesau]

If your proxies are not paying smooth I guess you are using video codec that is not supported by your hardware acceleration (nvidia).
On a PC laptop I'm rendering using HDxND LQ at 1080p and the proxies are playing smooth.
At work we are using mac's and rendering proxies using ProRes 422.
The main idea is to have your nvidia to handle all calculations but sometimes simple reducing of the data rate inside codec settings is enough to play smooth.

Thanks for the reply Niki - I'll play around a bit with the proxies but it's the same settings I use for the compressed Inspire footage (straight from the MicroSD) and have no issues. The more I write and think about it, the more it doesn't make sense as the proxy file shouldn't have a issue with the bitrate that you get with the RAW video...

 

[Sebastiendeg]

Hi guys,

So, If I import DNG from CineLight into Premiere (I'm sure that it support the DJI ones now). Do I get all the advantages of using RAW?

 

[Helicam Sweden]

Hi! I have a problem here. When i export my cinemaDNG using the DJI Camera Exporter to My PC, and then import the DNG files to Adobe Premiere pro 2017 they all look to dark. I have to push the exposure like 3-4 stops to get them to look right? When i import them to Davinci Resolve they look perfect.. Arnt the cinemDNG from DJI camera exporter fully compatible with Premiere Pro 2017? Is there a fix to this?

 

[rosar]

Hi! I have a problem here. When i export my cinemaDNG using the DJI Camera Exporter to My PC, and then import the DNG files to Adobe Premiere pro 2017 they all look to dark. I have to push the exposure like 3-4 stops to get them to look right? When i import them to Davinci Resolve they look perfect.. Arnt the cinemDNG from DJI camera exporter fully compatible with Premiere Pro 2017? Is there a fix to this?

As mentioned a few times before (I think even in this thread), this issue could be fixed with Slimraw.

 

[Wolfiesden]

Curious, I have PP CC2015. Am I going to be able to use the raw files? I just received the bird today. I did some tests and it seems I MUST have a uSD card in the camera for it to record on the SSD. Odd. Anyway. Ran the util on the SSD on my PC. All it seems to do is spit out DNG files. Thousands of them for a short test recording.

So, it appears that this thing runs DNG stills as frames. Not quite what I had expected. I had expected uncompressed VIDEO file. Not individual files. Is the norm here? Or do I have a setting wrong somewhere?

I also found it rather humerous that they shipped a RAW bird with a 16g uSD card. Rofl. Not even a 32 or 64. Cripes.

 

[Cactuswest]

Curious, I have PP CC2015. Am I going to be able to use the raw files? I just received the bird today. I did some tests and it seems I MUST have a uSD card in the camera for it to record on the SSD. Odd. Anyway. Ran the util on the SSD on my PC. All it seems to do is spit out DNG files. Thousands of them for a short test recording.

So, it appears that this thing runs DNG stills as frames. Not quite what I had expected. I had expected uncompressed VIDEO file. Not individual files. Is the norm here? Or do I have a setting wrong somewhere?

I also found it rather humerous that they shipped a RAW bird with a 16g uSD card. Rofl. Not even a 32 or 64. Cripes.

Yes you will be able to use the raw files in PP.
I don't remember if you have to have an SD card to record on the SSD because I never shot without an SD card. The reason is you can review your shots before having to transcode them from the SSD.
Yes it "spits" out DNG files. Raw files are not video files. Transcoding has to take place in order to view the files. That's when DNG files are created. The y are image sequences which when played at 24, 30fps or such you see video. And yes they are huge files.

 

[InterMurph]

PP supports those raw DNG files, but unless you have an unbelievably powerful computer, it will have trouble keeping up. I have a 6-core/12-thread CPU running at 4.1GHz and a 2TB SSD, and even that has trouble.

The solution is to create proxy footage when you have PP ingest the footage. The proxy footage is lower resolution, but good enough to let you edit at full speed. Then when you export, PP uses the original raw files for the most detail.

The process of creating proxy footage is more complex and difficult than it should be. It can only be done via "ingest" of the footage; you can't do it via the standard "import". See this article for help: Adobe Premiere Pro Help | Ingest and Proxy Workflow in Premiere Pro CC 2015.3

 

[Wolfiesden]

Yes you will be able to use the raw files in PP.
I don't remember if you have to have an SD card to record on the SSD because I never shot without an SD card. The reason is you can review your shots before having to transcode them from the SSD.
Yes it "spits" out DNG files. Raw files are not video files. Transcoding has to take place in order to view the files. That's when DNG files are created. The y are image sequences which when played at 24, 30fps or such you see video. And yes they are huge files.

I had expected an uncompressed AVI or something similar. When they said raw, I never imagined they REALLY meant raw. As in DNGs for every frame. Not quite what I was prepared for. But I guess they seriously meant "RAW". I have shot RAW stills since my Nikon D70 was brand new and on to other bodies so I am quite familiar with ACR and raw workflow as far as stills go with Lightroom and PS. Actually having DNGs for video was a bit of a surprise. A good surprise, but still a surprise.

PP supports those raw DNG files, but unless you have an unbelievably powerful computer, it will have trouble keeping up. I have a 6-core/12-thread CPU running at 4.1GHz and a 2TB SSD, and even that has trouble.

The solution is to create proxy footage when you have PP ingest the footage. The proxy footage is lower resolution, but good enough to let you edit at full speed. Then when you export, PP uses the original raw files for the most detail.

The process of creating proxy footage is more complex and difficult than it should be. It can only be done via "ingest" of the footage; you can't do it via the standard "import". See this article for help: Adobe Premiere Pro Help | Ingest and Proxy Workflow in Premiere Pro CC 2015.3

Thank you. I will review that article this evening. Right now, its day, its not raining, wind is light and I got a maiden flight to make Hopefully remember to squeeze off a few shots and some video to play with. Nothing serous, focusing on bird mechanics and flight charismatics at first. Likely to be a completely different handling experience than the P3P.

 

[ianwood]

RAW means RAW. As in each RAW frame is taken from the sensor and placed into a storage system one by one.

As for AVI, it's a bit long in the tooth as far as video file formats go. CinemaDNG is an Adobe-led open standard for recording RAW video.

 

[Wolfiesden]

I knew what RAW was in the stills environment, as I said, been shooting raw for a long time. Well before it was "the" in thing and long before Fro made it popular (and yea, I do have a couple I shoot RAW t-shirts).

However, I wasn't expecting actual RAW from video, especially out of DJI. So many companies throw around various buzz words and don't really mean it. This time they actually meant it Rather refreshing.

 

[ianwood]

@damoncooper, are you still in touch your guy at Adobe? I have a question for him about CinemaDNG and ACR.

 

[J0n]

Do you guys know if FCPX treats a DNG image sequence (or the compound video you created out of it) from an Inspire 1 Raw / X5R as RAW with all it's benefits?

Or is an image sequence for FCPX just a dumb list of jpegs (basically because the DNGs also contain a preview image) where you lost all the exposure information? Because working with image sequences doesn't feel too bad on a fast computer - but I'd love to know if it makes sense from an image quality point of view...

 

[Cactuswest]

FCPX reads a DNG sequence not as a sequence but as a bunch of jpegs.
Da Vinci Resolve will read them as sequences (with all the raw advantages).
To get the sequence out of the X5R SSD, you need to use their proprietary utility (there might be another one too) to export them.
In the utility, just export the sequence without doing anything else.

 

[J0n]

FCPX reads a DNG sequence not as a sequence but as a bunch of jpegs.

Thank you so much for this info! So FCPX will basically just work with the "jpeg preview" which is inside the DNG... I thought that you could at least create a compound video out of the "bunch of pictures" within FCPX and work with this compound video ... but if it's just JPEG, it doesn't make any sense at all!