Pulled the trigger on X5R
- Thread starter damoncooper
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2013
- Messages
- 251
- Reaction score
- 87
To be fair, nothing really concrete has come out about the 4.6k sensor. But the 4k version seems to be completely useless above 400 iso and is plagued with the same FPN problem as earlier BM cameras. I guess time will tell...
RAW is RAW. ProRes out from the DJI app will be capable of producing 12-bit 444 yes. That's per beta testers of the X5R.
I'm with you on the 4:4:4 part, because the camera will record the raw pixel data, leaving the chroma sub-sampling to be done by the transcoder.
But I'm not sure that the 12-bit part is self-evident; I think it's up to the sensor to report 8, 10, or 12 bits of data per channel.
And even if the beta-testers are reporting 12 bits, I would remain skeptical due to the current DJI X5 transcoding tool, which takes 8-bit, 60 megabits/second H.264 footage as input, and produces "Apple ProRes YUV 4:2:2 10-bit" footage as output. It isn't somehow extracting an additional 2 bits of data per channel from that ultra-compressed footage; it's just setting them to 0.
I have an X5 on order, and I am very optimistic about the video quality it will produce. I'm just a bit skeptical about the details, given DJI's lack of detail and poor track record with camera software. 12-bit raw would be incredible, but if we are forced to live with 10-bit raw, we're still probably going to be happy.
But I'm not sure that the 12-bit part is self-evident; I think it's up to the sensor to report 8, 10, or 12 bits of data per channel.
And even if the beta-testers are reporting 12 bits, I would remain skeptical due to the current DJI X5 transcoding tool, which takes 8-bit, 60 megabits/second H.264 footage as input, and produces "Apple ProRes YUV 4:2:2 10-bit" footage as output. It isn't somehow extracting an additional 2 bits of data per channel from that ultra-compressed footage; it's just setting them to 0.
I have an X5 on order, and I am very optimistic about the video quality it will produce. I'm just a bit skeptical about the details, given DJI's lack of detail and poor track record with camera software. 12-bit raw would be incredible, but if we are forced to live with 10-bit raw, we're still probably going to be happy.
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2013
- Messages
- 104
- Reaction score
- 22
- Location
- Ransomville NY
- Website
- kdactionphoto.smugmug.com
Sometimes its nice to have the best, greatest and latest, but it sucks to not get paid for it...........
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2015
- Messages
- 76
- Reaction score
- 22
- Age
- 41
Except, again, that "minimum 12-bit" refers to the file format, which must contain a minimum of 12 bits of information per channel.
My point: how many bits of information come off the sensor? If it produces only 8 bits or 10 bits per channel, then encodes that data in the 12-bit file format, we don't magically gain any extra bits of information; the missing bits will all be set to '0'.
Imagine a black and white image; that's 1 bit of information per channel. White is represented by a '1', and black by a '0'. Now encode that information in 8 bits; white becomes 00000001, and black becomes 00000000. No new information is added; just a bunch of zeroes.
Again, it would be great to have 12 bits per channel, and pretty great to have 10 bits per channel. But the file format used by the X5R does not determine how many bits are reported by the sensor. We still have to wait and see on that.
My point: how many bits of information come off the sensor? If it produces only 8 bits or 10 bits per channel, then encodes that data in the 12-bit file format, we don't magically gain any extra bits of information; the missing bits will all be set to '0'.
Imagine a black and white image; that's 1 bit of information per channel. White is represented by a '1', and black by a '0'. Now encode that information in 8 bits; white becomes 00000001, and black becomes 00000000. No new information is added; just a bunch of zeroes.
Again, it would be great to have 12 bits per channel, and pretty great to have 10 bits per channel. But the file format used by the X5R does not determine how many bits are reported by the sensor. We still have to wait and see on that.
See the Adobe presentation on CinemaDNG here:
http://wwwimages.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/cinemadng/pdfs/CinemaDNG_Siggraph_2010.pdf
It's typically 10 or 12 bits from camera makers, but again, an X5R tester has confirmed the X5R will output 12bit
The X5R is going to be great!
I reached the "not worth flying the X3 because my X5 is on order and should be here soon" phase pretty quickly. And now I am in the "not really worth flying my X5 because my X5R is on order" phase!
I dint get any compression artifacts and flickering on my X5 at all. The lens is great but you do need to know how to use a camera. Its not like the X3. you really have to be a camera person and since the updates, the lens is sharp. Buy with confidence. Those that complain are not really camera people. Its not point and shoot.
I shoot for a living and am more than happy with the X5. I read and read all the comments here and wasn't happy with the focus until I woke one morning and put my camera hat on. Then it hit me that this is a real camera and has to be used as a real camera, most people are not camera people. They just want to fly a drone.
I am the opposite. Im in tv production and the drone is just a way to carry my camera. What do you expect to see in the footage? its sharp and doesn't flicker like the P3 does. It doesn't have any jello and is stable. You will however have to be able to use manual settings and understand how a camera works. It is not like the X3 or P3 cams. If I handed you a Mark 3 DSLR, you would need to be able to use that as well and spend a lot of time learning to do that. The X5 is the same. Its a real camera.
The X5 has the same Ambella SOC and backend FW that the X3 has and has the same limitations and problems. Flickering for example, seen here on a wall sized 4K display for exaggerated effect:
It has nothing to do with being a "camera person".
The promise of the X5R is that DJI firmware for encoding and the entire SOC (and all its problems) is bypassed when shooting in RAW CinemaDNG.
This is exactly what I have seen.
You don't need to be a camera person to use an app on your phone or tablet and have a fundamental understanding of aperture and depth of field.
Ok... good. Why do you want to see footage then? You know it all it seems. Most people have no idea what depth of field is and aperture. I earn over 30k a month with my camera and drone. I don't worry about the technical side. I just shoot what I need to make a tv commercial. There is no flickering on my footage. After the X5, the P3 footage is almost unusable. Its sharper but it flickers because of that.
There is flickering in your footage because there is flickering in virtually ALL X5 footage. You just haven't viewed it on a format that makes it obvious.
Last edited:
