USA So. Couldn't use my Part WTF!?07 license the other day...

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Listen, I am not going to sit and argue with you when you don't even have your facts straight. A hobbyist is not allowed to fly within 5 nm of an airport. If you know part 107 then you know that class D airspace is usually within the 5-mile radius of the airport.

For the hobbyist to get clearance they would need to file for authorization providing the FAA with their cert number just as you and I. Now to point out one thing here. You were originally mad because you didn't get an immediate authorization from ATC when you know full and well that that's not the process. It is highly unlikely and I would have to say never happened that the hobbyist got clearance like you said. You are just mad that you didn't get the gig because you have to follow the rules. Did I leave anything out? No. You, Sir are the prime example of anti-authority. You expect that since you don't like a rule it is bunk and should not matter. Well, guess what? It does. I hope you can look past your anger and see how dangerous it is for you to act this way as a professional. Not only dangerous to you but everyone you fly around. Next, you will say that it is bunk that you can't fly over people or out of VLOS. Take a step back and look at it logically. If you still don't see the issue then I suggest you should turn in your certification to the FAA since it means so little to you. Have a wonderful night.

 

[William Gaddy]

Was called to do a job adjacent to a class D airport. Like a good, GL insured, Part 107 license holder, I called local FAA Standards office to get authorization because the shoot was in a few days. I was notified that Part 107 authorizations were ONLY given through online portal. You know, the one that allows 90 days for review... Yeah, that one.
<snip for brevity>...</snip>

Because of this circumstance, Part 107 appears to be nothing more than a sham to benefit larger-scale production companies by limiting access to smaller ones which are more likely to operate on an abbreviated timeline, while inadvertently, (or not,) encouraging clandestine, commercial UAS operation.

One thing is for sure: Allowing untrained hobbyists to fly on a moment's notice, in the same airspace that a licensed operator needs excessive bureaucratic scrutiny, undermines the legitimacy of the entire FAA Part 107 licensing process. And some of you guys ***** about Joe Hobbyist stealing your work? Thank the FAA for allowing them in the air while they keep you grounded.

Or am I missing something?

You're missing CFR 14 Part 101, which covers "hobby fliers" which basically defrocks the FAA from doing anything to hobby fliers. Thank Congress for that, not the FAA. Their hands are tied by statute. Welcome to the AMA! (I'm also a Part 107 have waivers, etc, and I agree this is Janus-two-faced regulatory apparatus but Congress is capable of passing stupid laws, and the govt is capable of promulgating stupid regulations, film at 11).

 

[William Gaddy]

Unless said hobbyist calls the tower 30 mins beforehand and follows any CTAF instructions. Meanwhile, if your flying 107 they won't even take your call, they direct you to the "portal of doom".

 

[William Gaddy]

It's your duty as a citizen and a licensee to stand there, film the hobbyist breaking the law, and turn it over to the FAA.

I'm being facetious or course, but oh how I'd love to turn in some of these people. Really, I would have called the sheriff to report it if it happened in front of me, but I doubt that it would have been be very effective. It's like reporting unlicensed contracting as a contractor (which I am also). It's a duty, but you have to pick your battles.

<RANT>I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me. Droners.io being an egregious example. You only get undercut by someone who doesn't even CARE that they are in Class Bravo airspace on an IFR southward approach to EWR. Hell, they might be 107, but they just don't give a ****, they bid lower, because they don't even take the time to check-- worse yet, you can't sort out who won the bid, and who the hell wants to drive to a s***hole like Linden New Jersey to stalk a dual violation of 14 CFR Part 107.41 and 107.43? Especially when any report will end up alongside the box with Indiana Jones's Lost Ark in a warehouse. Why? Droners.io doesn't give a s***, they still get the commission, legal or not.</END RANT>

 

[RocketBrew]

This is not the FAA. They would give anything to clamp down on hobbyists, but the AMA lobbyists got Congress to include their hobbyist exemption in the modernization act, so the FAA's hands are tied.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

It IS the FAA which, by rule, and practically speaking, has prohibited part 107 license holders from flying in areas that hobbyists are allowed.

I'm not saying it's well placed, but:
Congess "trusts" unqualified hobbyists to fly in Class D airspace with tower authorization.

FAA doesn't "trust" their own licensees, whom they instruct, test, and approve, to operate in the same airspace under the same local tower authorization.

Airport towers are there to control airspace. I was sufficiently educated and tested on airspace and tower operations. I have displayed, more than any hobbyist, my dedication to safe and proper UAS operation, having submitted to FAA requirements of licensing and UAS registration, FOR THE PURPOSE OF LEGAL, COMMERCIAL UAV OPERATION, and my reward is effective prohibition from just that.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

My beef is not with hobbyists. I went through all this rigamarole to operate commercially, legally. Not to look down on enthusiasts who many, in practice, have far more experience than myself.

I would also argue it is the job of local law enforcement to "clamp down" on any enthusiasts violating local ordinances, not the FAA unless there is an immediate threat of danger to manned aircraft. There are already plenty of criminal and civil penalties in the books to address any conceivable infractions resulting in loss.

Unless said hobbyist calls the tower 30 mins beforehand and follows any CTAF instructions. Meanwhile, if your flying 107 they won't even take your call, they direct you to the "portal of doom".

If you read my OP, I did just that after being informed by the tower. I notified them of my intentions and parameters which I knew were not conflicting. They authorized the flight, took my personal info, made a reasonable request to contact them, by phone, before and after operations. Exactly how aircraft do it, and exactly how it should be done.

 

[Dejan Smaic]

I'm not sure why there is any confusion on what the OP is trying to convey. In simple terms, the FAA is punishing the good guys with rules we must follow, and rewarding the bad guys (hobbiest) with the key to the city. I agree with the OP. Why should we get Part 107 if hobbiests are allowed free reign in controlled air space with just a phone call?

 

[droneondemand]

Was called to do a job adjacent to a class D airport. Like a good, GL insured, Part 107 license holder, I called local FAA Standards office to get authorization because the shoot was in a few days. I was notified that Part 107 authorizations were ONLY given through online portal. You know, the one that allows 90 days for review... Yeah, that one.

That doesn't work, so I call the airport tower to seek authorization. The nice person on the end of the line informs me that because it is a commercial (read: for hire) operation, authorization can only be given through the online portal.

Here's the part that has me seeing red:

They then went on to inform me that the only thing a hobbyist, (not insured, no formal training, or Part 107 license) has to do at the same location/ time is notify the tower of operation details (altitude, time frame, contact ph #, etc) and receive an IMMEDIATE authorization or denial FROM THE TOWER. So I call the tower back, NOTIFY the tower of my flight parameters and get immediate authorization with a request to call them by phone, before and after the flight(s.)

So the FAA rules, in current form, allow for an untrained hobbyist to fly in Class D airspace, virtually immediately, with one phone call to the tower, while a trained, FAA licensed UAS pilot must receive authorization within 90 days from a bureaucrat in a distant office. And the only difference between the two, is that the qualified pilot being grounded is paid to fly, and the UNQUALIFIED pilot, with unqualified equipment is free to fly on the honor system? And the FAA has established this system for safety purposes!? Bulls**t. And some of the whack jobs in here rail against supposed Part 107 violators being such a mortal danger to the general populace when the FAA obviously couldn't GAF as long as they aren't being paid.

A long time ago, I was told that when something doesn't make sense, to "follow the money." And also, "The Golden Rule," which is: "The one with the gold, makes the rules."

Because of this circumstance, Part 107 appears to be nothing more than a sham to benefit larger-scale production companies by limiting access to smaller ones which are more likely to operate on an abbreviated timeline, while inadvertently, (or not,) encouraging clandestine, commercial UAS operation.

One thing is for sure: Allowing untrained hobbyists to fly on a moment's notice, in the same airspace that a licensed operator needs excessive bureaucratic scrutiny, undermines the legitimacy of the entire FAA Part 107 licensing process. And some of you guys ***** about Joe Hobbyist stealing your work? Thank the FAA for allowing them in the air while they keep you grounded.

Or am I missing something?

I'll see your knuckleheads and raise you one jackhole...
So we've got the Big 12 Collegiate Basketball Tournaments here in Kansas City for the past week. My camera op, who is also a pro photog was hired to shoot stills at one of the events downtown, which is within the 5nm circle of KMKC (Charles B Wheeler) Class D. He sees a sUAS flying around shooting video. When it lands, he asks the operator "what company are you with?". His reply, "I'm with the ESPN crew up here from Texas". My camera op says "You know you are flying within Class D, the downtown airport is right over there!". His reply...."Well it's ok, I'm staying under 200ft".
Because he was with "ESPN" nobody questioned.
How is this being allowed to happen?!?
I've got (2) requests for waivers waiting just to shoot some lousy real estate stills and an hour of aerial of a wedding that I may/may not get permission for...yet this guy is "keeping it under 200ft" and getting paid by ESPN.
Complete and utter shite.

 

[boefinator]

You need to work on that reading comprehension a little bit and then you can "be amazed" at your own ignorance.

I related an incident as it happened, and quoted ATC and FAA officials, which policy has also been substantiated in other threads in this forum, so perhaps you should get off your high horse and open your eyes to reality and quit the virtue signaling. Then and maybe then you'll be able to see things for what they are apart from some Quixotic fantasy.

This is absolutely true, I've had the same discussion with ATC at my Class D airport. The hobbyist doesn't need authorization, they simply need to notify.

 

[John Archer]

Right up front, I am one of the dreaded HOBBIEST you mentioned in the post above. Also I am 66 years young which makes me a double danger to you licensed elitist. I fly for the sheer joy of flying. I am retired, I AM NOT looking for any extra curricular jobs. I have NO intention of treading on any licensed pilots toes or try to take any work away from anyone. I have flown in my back yard and at a local park a few times in the past year. I go above and beyond trying to follow every rule to the letter. If I ever thought there was the slimmest chance I was going to damage something or pose a danger to anyone around I would fly my Inspire into the ground first. I talked to the park custodian before I unloaded my Inspire and asked if it was OK to fly in said park. He gave me his blessings and then watched me fly a couple of batteries then he left. I only fly on weekdays when the park is almost totally empty.
I can't speak for all the HOBBIEST, I am sure there are a few of them that have no business flying anything. At the same time I don't feel that just because you are a licensed pilot that everything you do is perfectly legal. If you are really concerned that I pose a threat to any of you, then buy me out. Refund all the money I have spent on my Inspire and related equipment and I will find another hobby to while away my remaining time on Earth. Until then, I will continue to fly when conditions are favorable. For the record, I am a member of the AMA and I also have a FAA numbered sticker on my Inspire. Sorry if you feel threatened by me, but as long as I can fly safely and have a good time, I shall continue to do so.

 

[skybandit]

No I did not. The real-estate company went with the "hobbyist". He was cheaper and was willing to fly right then and there. I informed the realestate company of the legalities and they did not care. They thought I was crazy and did not know what I was talking about. "A person does not need a license to take pictures of a house." as they were informed by the hobbyist. I was trying to scam them !

Been there, done that. I've turned down multiple jobs for safety or legal issues knowing full well someone else will do it despite these issues. Sucks but I sleep better at night. Kind of.

 

[HFI]

Hobbyists are allowed to fly within 5 miles of an airport as long as they notify the airport. Read the operating rules section of the Getting Started Guide.

View attachment 12754

Here's the "advantage" of being able to fly under Part 107 when it comes to "airports." There are many, many, many, airports and heliports within Class G. The 5-mile rule applies to ALL of them (just check out the FAA's B4UFly app!). Therefore, if you the hobbyist cannot reach the owner, operator, or ATC, you are not supposed to fly within 5 miles (statute miles by the way) of ANY airport. For the commercial operator, it's only controlled airspace that you need to get prior authorization or a waiver to Part 107.42.

So there is some advantage to the Part 107 certification. If you have clients that you want to serve in controlled airspace, try applying for a waiver versus a one-time authorization. This will give you a much larger window within which you can take jobs in that area. When it comes to ad hoc, near term flying within controlled airspace, it is a bit ridiculous that you have go online while a hobbyist can simply call the tower or airport operator/owner. BUT, the hobbyist has to do that for way more airports than a Part 107 pilot!

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

I heard of a government study that when it became too overbearing, instead of turning on the government, in order to express their frustrations, citizens would turn on each other instead.

Anyone flying a drone whether licensed or not, unless you are engaged in business, and as long as you are using discretion and common sense, I regard it as none of my business. There's a whole lot of flying you can do in towered airspace and NEVER come close to being a danger to anyone or anything. I cannot imagine ESPN would expose themselves without proper liability insurance, etc, which is far more important than violating senseless rules with safe, prudent drone operation. Besides, you really don't know what authorization that pilot did or didn't have.

Have we become a nation of pinheads, feverishly running around, and pedantically lecturing and scolding others, not because someone violated the rights of their fellow man, but because they violated some idiotic rule drawn up by a distant bureaucrat, which was most likely created solely for the benefit of a well connected lobbyist? They all sound so noble at first, but then soon becomes apparent it's only purpose is to create an unlevel playing field. And the peasants swallow up their own demise like tripe.

 

[Jason1234]

If you have clients that you want to serve in controlled airspace, try applying for a waiver versus a one-time authorization.

An authorization is not necessarily a "one-time" thing. I have two authorizations for large swaths of controlled airspace that each span two full years. I don't see the purpose in applying for anything less than two years as long as it doesn't decrease the chance of being granted the authorization. But it's been discussed exhaustively that the authorization process is kind of a lottery, so maybe that's not the best approach.

 

[skybandit]

I'm just gonna chime in and give Pescatoral a +1 for his original post. If I understand his intention correctly, he's simply pointing out the absurdity of greater leniency given to hobbyists than licensed drone pilots with respect to flying in controlled airspace. To this I agree 100%. The rules are completely bass ackwards and it's the regulations set upon licensed pilots that should be setting the bar for unlicensed pilots to meet at a minimum.

On another note, what I also find pretty absurd throughout this site is how easily people get ticked off at each other and waste so much space and time going off topic to rip each other to shreds. I graduated elementary school a very long time ago and other than recess when I got to play tag and pull ponytails, have no desire to relive that "nanny nanny boo boo" time in my life.

People here are obviously very passionate about flying and there is a LOT of confusion. I've been flying for 5 years, have my license, etc. and still come up confused about various topics which is why I come here to this site. It's a fantastic resource to bounce ideas off each other and try to get answers to so many questions. In the words of Rodney King, can't we all just get along? [I just finished watching 'The People vs OJ' on Netflix - couldn't help myself.]

 

[T Bird]

Adopting an adversarial stance with FAA is not going to help your cause. Those guys don't make the rules, they're just doing their job. We operate in South Florida, which might have the highest density of restricted airspace outside of DC. There are airports everywhere, large and small. There is a B, 2 C's, and loads of D's, all within our operating area. We have COA's in place for most of the areas we work in. When we need a new one quickly, we file online and then pick up the phone and call our local FSDO. Explain the situation and the safety techs there will almost always help you out and push the auth through. You just need to be respectful and treat them like you want to be treated. I'm sure there are a few out there that will give you a hard time, but so far we have done ok with them.

 

[Jason1234]

Those guys don't make the rules, they're just doing their job.

What? The FAA does make the rules. Who else is there to blame for the mess? It's certainly not the licensed pilots who have jumped through the hoops.

 

[skybandit]

An authorization is not necessarily a "one-time" thing. I have two authorizations for large swaths of controlled airspace that each span two full years. I don't see the purpose in applying for anything less than two years as long as it doesn't decrease the chance of being granted the authorization. But it's been discussed exhaustively that the authorization process is kind of a lottery, so maybe that's not the best approach.

Can you clarify? Because I also thought authorizations were for specific 'one time' dates and waivers were longer term blanket allowances. And when applying for either, do you have to specify what you want to do or simply request the area you want to fly in? The point I'm specifically interested in is getting a general / blanket allowance for several years to fly around the area I live in which is close to a number of airports. I don't have any projects on deck but I'd like to be prepared for when I do so I'm already good to go. I've been confused as to the best way to go about this.

 

[T Bird]

What? The FAA does make the rules. Who else is there to blame for the mess? It's certainly not the licensed pilots who have jumped through the hoops.

The guys that process your app and/or pick up the phone when you call don't make the rules.