USA So. Couldn't use my Part WTF!?07 license the other day...

[William Gaddy]

All you have to do to see what a mess the system is, is to look at the test questions for the 107, seriously why all the 'airplane questions" why does a drone pilot need too know about G forces, or to read a weather report with information on weather at altitudes over 400 feet AGL. If they (FAA) were worried about safety, they would have a practical test, that a flight student would take after completing say 10 hours of flight time at a certified flight school. Knowing where and when you can fly a drone, is not near as dangerous as not know how to actually fly it at all. Lets face it, these "rules" are starting to kill the industry. Parrot fired 300 people, and rumor has it next week Yunek, is firing 70% of its work force in the US. Worse yet the Safety Transportation Board can out with a report that said, every, every reported drone/jet close call was actually birds. You can help with the process by simply posting on the FAA comments website.

With 2M committed drone operators in the U.S. practical tests would swamp them. They'de need to double their budget, ain't gonna happen. If they did that the FAA would unintentionally create a cottage industry of drone CFI's though (maybe not a bad thing for safety, but lots of friction to the Market)... As far as the drone manufacturing industry goes, I am not alarmed. A whole bunch of loose money chasing the next hype cycle, and then it reaches maturity and consolidates. The weaker hands are played out of the game. Too bad.

 

[William Gaddy]

All you have to do to see what a mess the system is, is to look at the test questions for the 107, seriously why all the 'airplane questions" why does a drone pilot need too know about G forces, or to read a weather report with information on weather at altitudes over 400 feet AGL. If they (FAA) were worried about safety, they would have a practical test, that a flight student would take after completing say 10 hours of flight time at a certified flight school. Knowing where and when you can fly a drone, is not near as dangerous as not know how to actually fly it at all. Lets face it, these "rules" are starting to kill the industry. Parrot fired 300 people, and rumor has it next week Yunek, is firing 70% of its work force in the US. Worse yet the Safety Transportation Board can out with a report that said, every, every reported drone/jet close call was actually birds. You can help with the process by simply posting on the FAA comments website.

For the record, I have a Parrot Disco and it's awesome, I will hate to see them go out of business. They have to do what they can to survive.

 

[Sideshow]

I'm new here, and not 100% on the part 107 requirements, but I am, and have been following the AMA/FAA/ hobbyist/ commercial situation since 2009. I aspire to become a commercial operator. That said, lets talk about enforcement. My friend, fixed wing flyer, and police officer received a phone call from a frantic woman complaining on how a drone operator (hobbyist) was flying in the park across the street from her house. There was a city ordinance stating "no drone flying within city limits". Not a FAA rule, but he said his hands were tied. Ordinance or not, the only people who can enforce these rules are FAA employees. With 30,000 FAA workers getting laid off under the new administration who is supposed to enforce these rules? How many commercial operators have actual first hand knowledge of any operator being punished/arrested/fined/ticketed by an FAA representative? I've heard of parks people fining recreational operators for flying in game preserves after seeing their videos on YouTube. But not "licenced" operators.

I'm not suggesting commercial operators should run amok, but isn't there a common sense way to operate within safety guidelines, maybe not exactly within the letter of the law, but in the spirit of it?

I've been in the construction industry, and even if I'm not pulling a permit I make sure all work is up to code. Some county's require a permit and inspection to replace a sink faucet. How many people do you think file for that permit? The cost of the permit and inspection are usually more than the faucet and labor combined. What I'm getting at is, maybe no harm=no foul.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I learned a lot reading through it.

 

[William Gaddy]

Your mileage may vary. But I work in NYC frequently -- ALWAYS pull permits. Period, full stop. You want to experience pain? Try flying or filming with a drone (or anything without a permit)... I've only done Gonzo twice and I swear I had nightmares for two days. Not worth it.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Yes, the SOP for air traffic managers is to refer requestors to: Request a Waiver/Airspace Authorization – Small Unmanned Aircraft System (sUAS). In the Waiver/Airspace Authorization section, the first option is "Regulation subject to airspace authorization." That is what one selects for a one-off request with the expected TAT of 2-3 weeks. The "Regulation subject to waiver" section has a TAT of ~ 90 days with a waiver approved up to 2 years.

To make a slight correction:
If you are part 107, they refer you to the online portal. Period.
If you are a hobbyist, they request your personal info, (name ph#, home address)
flight times and parameters, they will IMMEDIATELY approve, modify, or reject your authorization, and require phone contact info at the site.

Online portal is not for hobbyists and
tower authorization is not for part 107 flyers.

This, at worst, should be the other way around.

 

[HFI]

There was a city ordinance stating "no drone flying within city limits". Not a FAA rule, but he said his hands were tied. Ordinance or not, the only people who can enforce these rules are FAA employees. .

That's not really correct. Cities, counties, states, etc. can all prohibit the use of drones ON their property. This means that you can not launch or land a drone from a park where the rules state drones are prohibited. Police are most certainly within their authority to enforce such local ordinances.

Where it becomes murky is when you simply overfly such property (including private property). The FAA regulates the "airspace" and recently this has been defined to be the airspace above the grass on your yard (see Busting Myths about the FAA and Unmanned Aircraft). So be sure to check and obey local ordinances with regard to flying your drone. Although you might "legally" be able to launch and land your drone from across the street and overfly a park where such an operation is locally prohibited, it would be more prudent to respect the spirit of the ban and not do so.

Police are primarily concerned with public safety so if they perceive that you are endangering the public, they will have every right to intervene (stop you from flying). Testing the rules and entering into jurisdictional "discussions" with local authorities will probably not win any battles and just give more reasons for further restrictions on "drones." I've never had an encounter with law enforcement regarding a drone flight, but I would certainly comply with any of their requests and ask questions later. Maybe even offer to provide a "drone familiarization" class at the local police station or community center!

 

[Jason1234]

That's not really correct. Cities, counties, states, etc. can all prohibit the use of drones ON their property.

Another way to emphasize that is:

Cities, counties, states, etc. can all prohibit the use of drones on THEIR property.

Clearly they have jurisdiction over (and by over I mean ON) public land.

The question then becomes whether they can regulate what you do on private property, i.e. launch and land. Local jurisdictions make all kinds of ordinances regarding what you can and can't do, such as working on automobiles, storing boats, and other activities that may be considered undesirable for that community.

This also applies to HOAs. I can see these communities trying to limit property owners' use of their own properties. One local HOA has tried to ban not only launch and land operations within its boundaries, but overflights, too. When I told them I could legally launch from a private site adjacent to theirs and overfly without their approval they looked dumbfounded, but said they would ask their attorney. They haven't got back to me in over a month, so I assume they were knocked off their high horse.

 

[William Gaddy]

HFI: Very well-put. The only thing to point out is there are Casey Neistat wannabe's out there in droves, who will think nothing of tickling (if not completely flouting) not just the "spirit" of the ordinances and regs, but openly dance upon them after they sucker-punched and knocked them out with a crowbar. Hell, Casey's newest marketing tagline for CNN is "Do what you can't". Seriously, you can't make this stuff up.

 

[kcobello]

No I did not. The real-estate company went with the "hobbyist". He was cheaper and was willing to fly right then and there. I informed the realestate company of the legalities and they did not care. They thought I was crazy and did not know what I was talking about. "A person does not need a license to take pictures of a house." as they were informed by the hobbyist. I was trying to scam them !

There will be a time when these fly by night, non cert. operators get a letter from the FAA and the companies hiring them will realize that they better start using cert, insured, operators. It will come.
Kevin

 

[Dejan Smaic]

Was called to do a job adjacent to a class D airport. Like a good, GL insured, Part 107 license holder, I called local FAA Standards office to get authorization because the shoot was in a few days. I was notified that Part 107 authorizations were ONLY given through online portal. You know, the one that allows 90 days for review... Yeah, that one.

That doesn't work, so I call the airport tower to seek authorization. The nice person on the end of the line informs me that because it is a commercial (read: for hire) operation, authorization can only be given through the online portal.

Here's the part that has me seeing red:

They then went on to inform me that the only thing a hobbyist, (not insured, no formal training, or Part 107 license) has to do at the same location/ time is notify the tower of operation details (altitude, time frame, contact ph #, etc) and receive an IMMEDIATE authorization or denial FROM THE TOWER. So I call the tower back, NOTIFY the tower of my flight parameters and get immediate authorization with a request to call them by phone, before and after the flight(s.)

So the FAA rules, in current form, allow for an untrained hobbyist to fly in Class D airspace, virtually immediately, with one phone call to the tower, while a trained, FAA licensed UAS pilot must receive authorization within 90 days from a bureaucrat in a distant office. And the only difference between the two, is that the qualified pilot being grounded is paid to fly, and the UNQUALIFIED pilot, with unqualified equipment is free to fly on the honor system? And the FAA has established this system for safety purposes!? Bulls**t. And some of the whack jobs in here rail against supposed Part 107 violators being such a mortal danger to the general populace when the FAA obviously couldn't GAF as long as they aren't being paid.

A long time ago, I was told that when something doesn't make sense, to "follow the money." And also, "The Golden Rule," which is: "The one with the gold, makes the rules."

Because of this circumstance, Part 107 appears to be nothing more than a sham to benefit larger-scale production companies by limiting access to smaller ones which are more likely to operate on an abbreviated timeline, while inadvertently, (or not,) encouraging clandestine, commercial UAS operation.

One thing is for sure: Allowing untrained hobbyists to fly on a moment's notice, in the same airspace that a licensed operator needs excessive bureaucratic scrutiny, undermines the legitimacy of the entire FAA Part 107 licensing process. And some of you guys ***** about Joe Hobbyist stealing your work? Thank the FAA for allowing them in the air while they keep you grounded.

Or am I missing something?

It is bull$h!t. The 90 days notice is BS. The system is broke and needs to be overhauled. And, I hope you did not say whether you flew or not on the job. That is self incrimination and a VERY UNFAIR question on a public forum. Frankly, the whole FAA system for commercial UAS flights is a joke.

 

[John]

In requesting a status on my waiver, this the FAA response I received last week: "Please note that airspace authorizations typically take 6-8 weeks to process, depending on the complexity and completeness of the request. Airspace waivers take longer to process, there is a current backlog of 8 months. "At this time, all airspace authorizations are processed manually. The FAA is working to automate this process and we thank you for your interest in aviation safety as we improve the system." Trump announced on June 3, 2017 his plan to privatize air traffic control via a private, nonprofit corporation to operate, manage and control air traffic control nationwide, similar to what Canada does, with a board made up mostly of representatives of the major airlines governing this corporation. Over time, this may make the process better or worse. We'll have to see.

 

[Jimmykjimmy]

In requesting a status on my waiver, this the FAA response I received last week: "Please note that airspace authorizations typically take 6-8 weeks to process, depending on the complexity and completeness of the request. Airspace waivers take longer to process, there is a current backlog of 8 months. "At this time, all airspace authorizations are processed manually. The FAA is working to automate this process and we thank you for your interest in aviation safety as we improve the system." Trump announced on June 3, 2017 his plan to privatize air traffic control via a private, nonprofit corporation to operate, manage and control air traffic control nationwide, similar to what Canada does, with a board made up mostly of representatives of the major airlines governing this corporation. Over time, this may make the process better or worse. We'll have to see.

Your absolutely right, 6-8 weeks is crazy. Its got to get better, although I wouldn't bet on the Orange **** getting that done. They just don't know what to do with us that want to fly commercially.
I went out to do a practice flight and a local cop was in the large abandoned site. I stopped to say hello, and told him I was going to fly my drone flight about 300 feet away, not over him. We started talking and he said you know I don't even know what the rules are for flying a drone. So being a good citizen started explaining them to him..for about 20 minutes. showed him my license, nice cop. Anyway, I thought if these guys don't have a vague idea of the rules how are any going to get enforced?

 

[John]

Your absolutely right, 6-8 weeks is crazy. Its got to get better, although I wouldn't bet on the Orange **** getting that done. They just don't know what to do with us that want to fly commercially.
I went out to do a practice flight and a local cop was in the large abandoned site. I stopped to say hello, and told him I was going to fly my drone flight about 300 feet away, not over him. We started talking and he said you know I don't even know what the rules are for flying a drone. So being a good citizen started explaining them to him..for about 20 minutes. showed him my license, nice cop. Anyway, I thought if these guys don't have a vague idea of the rules how are any going to get enforced?

Yes, commercial, professional, responsible pilots like us need to spread the word too, that is, educating people we come into contact about the rules, responsibilities, and potential risks.