USA So. Couldn't use my Part WTF!?07 license the other day...

[droneondemand]

Right up front, I am one of the dreaded HOBBIEST you mentioned in the post above. Also I am 66 years young which makes me a double danger to you licensed elitist. I fly for the sheer joy of flying. I am retired, I AM NOT looking for any extra curricular jobs. I have NO intention of treading on any licensed pilots toes or try to take any work away from anyone. I have flown in my back yard and at a local park a few times in the past year. I go above and beyond trying to follow every rule to the letter. If I ever thought there was the slimmest chance I was going to damage something or pose a danger to anyone around I would fly my Inspire into the ground first. I talked to the park custodian before I unloaded my Inspire and asked if it was OK to fly in said park. He gave me his blessings and then watched me fly a couple of batteries then he left. I only fly on weekdays when the park is almost totally empty.
I can't speak for all the HOBBIEST, I am sure there are a few of them that have no business flying anything. At the same time I don't feel that just because you are a licensed pilot that everything you do is perfectly legal. If you are really concerned that I pose a threat to any of you, then buy me out. Refund all the money I have spent on my Inspire and related equipment and I will find another hobby to while away my remaining time on Earth. Until then, I will continue to fly when conditions are favorable. For the record, I am a member of the AMA and I also have a FAA numbered sticker on my Inspire. Sorry if you feel threatened by me, but as long as I can fly safely and have a good time, I shall continue to do so.

It's cool to hear that you are embracing your hobbies and technology.
It's not a matter of feeling "threatened" by hobbyists, I believe the frustration is coming from a different set of rules for hobbyists and how some "commercial" operators are breaking the law and scabbing paying jobs.

 

[T Bird]

Can you clarify? Because I also thought authorizations were for specific 'one time' dates and waivers were longer term blanket allowances. And when applying for either, do you have to specify what you want to do or simply request the area you want to fly in? The point I'm specifically interested in is getting a general / blanket allowance for several years to fly around the area I live in which is close to a number of airports. I don't have any projects on deck but I'd like to be prepared for when I do so I'm already good to go. I've been confused as to the best way to go about this.

Go online and apply for a COA. Set a start and end date (you can ask for a couple of years, they will give you 6 months, at least from our FSDO). You can describe in general terms what you want to do. Painless process.

 

[droneondemand]

I heard of a government study that when it became too overbearing, instead of turning on the government, in order to express their frustrations, citizens would turn on each other instead.

Anyone flying a drone whether licensed or not, unless you are engaged in business, and as long as you are using discretion and common sense, I regard it as none of my business. There's a whole lot of flying you can do in towered airspace and NEVER come close to being a danger to anyone or anything. I cannot imagine ESPN would expose themselves without proper liability insurance, etc, which is far more important than violating senseless rules with safe, prudent drone operation. Besides, you really don't know what authorization that pilot did or didn't have.

Have we become a nation of pinheads, feverishly running around, and pedantically lecturing and scolding others, not because someone violated the rights of their fellow man, but because they violated some idiotic rule drawn up by a distant bureaucrat, which was most likely created solely for the benefit of a well connected lobbyist? They all sound so noble at first, but then soon becomes apparent it's only purpose is to create an unlevel playing field. And the peasants swallow up their own demise like tripe.

The pilot DID NOT have authorization. He said he did not need it because he was "flying under 200ft". That was the reason behind the post.

 

[Jason1234]

The guys that process your app and/or pick up the phone when you call don't make the rules.

Ok, that's not what you wrote so I was confused. The people processing apps have been pretty good to me, but sometimes you get a form letter denial that has no detail on why. I think we have every right to be annoyed, and even adversarial when that happens.

 

[Jason1234]

Can you clarify? Because I also thought authorizations were for specific 'one time' dates and waivers were longer term blanket allowances. And when applying for either, do you have to specify what you want to do or simply request the area you want to fly in? The point I'm specifically interested in is getting a general / blanket allowance for several years to fly around the area I live in which is close to a number of airports. I don't have any projects on deck but I'd like to be prepared for when I do so I'm already good to go. I've been confused as to the best way to go about this.

You just ask for your desired date range on the form and they grant authorization and put the dates in the special provisions section of the authorization letter.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Ive dealt with bureaucrats in my business for over 20 years. Some have been too lenient IMO, while others have abused their authority. The vast majority of them just want what I want- a job done properly and efficiently, which as some have lamented, the rules sometimes interfere with. I get the minor inconveniences as a cost of doing business, and an unsavory byproduct of a well regulated industry. I've spoken with folks at the local FSDO, and ATC. All conversations were polite and to the point. It was not my job or theirs to plead my case, or take my frustrations out on them. I had a job to do, and know well I was dealing with folks that have power to make it more difficult, or less.

This OP was result of being hit square in the face with an abject anti-business regulation under the guise of a "safety" reg, the likes of which is so duplicitous, I feel like a fool for having bought into the scheme.

My hope is that, while a small voice, having participated in previous FAA webinars concerning part 107, I'm able to process and formulate a good argument for this cause during the next one. And if I can provoke or encourage other Part 107ers to do the same, then the voice for fair and reasonable regulations only gets louder.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

The pilot DID NOT have authorization. He said he did not need it because he was "flying under 200ft". That was the reason behind the post.

A couple things:

You know for a fact he didn't have authorization, or are you soley going by what he said? I've been places doing properly authorized work, and have fed a line or two of BS to some nosey PITA asking too many questions that were none of their business. Not saying that was you, it just may have been their perception.

The bigger point was that he was aware of the airport and/ or operating in a safe self-regulating manner, consistent with what would have been authorized anyway.

 

[Dan C]

Greetings all,
This has been a great thread! As a former Army helicopter pilot, licensed UAS operator, and employee of a defense contractor, I guess you all know where I stand. I think T Bird brought up a really great point when he said to contact your local FSDO after you submit your request - this will definitely expedite the process. Continue to do the right thing legally by applying for your COA online. It is easier than you think, faster than you think, and the FAA provides explicit instructions on how to do it right smack in the middle of the page. Look for the link to the "Performance Based Standards" and it will tell you exactly what the FAA wants to see in the waiver. We just received our night waiver and it was approved for a four-year period.

To take it a step further and try to be helpful, I will say this. We have trained several law enforcement agencies and nearly every one of them knew nothing about drones before they received any training. Now, they are all armed with the FAA's guidance to law enforcement on what to do when they encounter unsafe or unauthorized operations. Download this information, keep it with you, and let your local police know about it: Law Enforcement engagement with Suspected Unauthorized UAS Operations.

Last, know that the FAA isn't equipped to handle every UAS violation, and they provided the guidance above to get some assistance from local law enforcement. If that is not enough, YOU still have the ability to report unsafe/unauthorized operations yourself. When the FAA receives a report, they are required to investigate it. Here is the Hotline link: FAA Hotline.

Hope I didn't piss anybody off.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Greetings all,
This has been a great thread! As a former Army helicopter pilot, licensed UAS operator, and employee of a defense contractor, I guess you all know where I stand. I think T Bird brought up a really great point when he said to contact your local FSDO after you submit your request - this will definitely expedite the process. Continue to do the right thing legally by applying for your COA online. It is easier than you think, faster than you think, and the FAA provides explicit instructions on how to do it right smack in the middle of the page. Look for the link to the "Performance Based Standards" and it will tell you exactly what the FAA wants to see in the waiver. We just received our night waiver and it was approved for a four-year period.

To take it a step further and try to be helpful, I will say this. We have trained several law enforcement agencies and nearly every one of them knew nothing about drones before they received any training. Now, they are all armed with the FAA's guidance to law enforcement on what to do when they encounter unsafe or unauthorized operations. Download this information, keep it with you, and let your local police know about it: Law Enforcement engagement with Suspected Unauthorized UAS Operations.

Last, know that the FAA isn't equipped to handle every UAS violation, and they provided the guidance above to get some assistance from local law enforcement. If that is not enough, YOU still have the ability to report unsafe/unauthorized operations yourself. When the FAA receives a report, they are required to investigate it. Here is the Hotline link: FAA Hotline.

Hope I didn't piss anybody off.

Haha. Not a hard thing to do on the interwebs. Great post but not really the argument here which is ready access by hobbyists to airspace effectively prohibited to part 107ers. There is no online authorization process that is as safe and efficient as contacting ATC directly, regardless of who's currently allowed or prohibited from receiving authorization this way.

I certainly don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater; just at a minimum, the same access as untrained hobbyists. They don't have direct access to night flying. I don't either unless approved by COA or Waiver, which is subjective (another, lesser problem, not being discussed here.)

A bonus to 107ers having this access is knowledgeable eyes and ears that have skin in the game in areas where unsafe flights by others can bee documented and reported.

 

[George L.]

Was called to do a job adjacent to a class D airport. Like a good, GL insured, Part 107 license holder, I called local FAA Standards office to get authorization because the shoot was in a few days. I was notified that Part 107 authorizations were ONLY given through online portal. You know, the one that allows 90 days for review... Yeah, that one.

That doesn't work, so I call the airport tower to seek authorization. The nice person on the end of the line informs me that because it is a commercial (read: for hire) operation, authorization can only be given through the online portal.

Here's the part that has me seeing red:

They then went on to inform me that the only thing a hobbyist, (not insured, no formal training, or Part 107 license) has to do at the same location/ time is notify the tower of operation details (altitude, time frame, contact ph #, etc) and receive an IMMEDIATE authorization or denial FROM THE TOWER. So I call the tower back, NOTIFY the tower of my flight parameters and get immediate authorization with a request to call them by phone, before and after the flight(s.)

So the FAA rules, in current form, allow for an untrained hobbyist to fly in Class D airspace, virtually immediately, with one phone call to the tower, while a trained, FAA licensed UAS pilot must receive authorization within 90 days from a bureaucrat in a distant office. And the only difference between the two, is that the qualified pilot being grounded is paid to fly, and the UNQUALIFIED pilot, with unqualified equipment is free to fly on the honor system? And the FAA has established this system for safety purposes!? Bulls**t. And some of the whack jobs in here rail against supposed Part 107 violators being such a mortal danger to the general populace when the FAA obviously couldn't GAF as long as they aren't being paid.

A long time ago, I was told that when something doesn't make sense, to "follow the money." And also, "The Golden Rule," which is: "The one with the gold, makes the rules."

Because of this circumstance, Part 107 appears to be nothing more than a sham to benefit larger-scale production companies by limiting access to smaller ones which are more likely to operate on an abbreviated timeline, while inadvertently, (or not,) encouraging clandestine, commercial UAS operation.

One thing is for sure: Allowing untrained hobbyists to fly on a moment's notice, in the same airspace that a licensed operator needs excessive bureaucratic scrutiny, undermines the legitimacy of the entire FAA Part 107 licensing process. And some of you guys ***** about Joe Hobbyist stealing your work? Thank the FAA for allowing them in the air while they keep you grounded.

Or am I missing something?

http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/for-business-users/

 

[Dan C]

Haha. Not a hard thing to do on the interwebs. Great post but not really the argument here which is ready access by hobbyists to airspace effectively prohibited to part 107ers. There is no online authorization process that is as safe and efficient as contacting ATC directly, regardless of who's currently allowed or prohibited from receiving authorization this way.

I certainly don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater; just at a minimum, the same access as untrained hobbyists. They don't have direct access to night flying. I don't either unless approved by COA or Waiver, which is subjective (another, lesser problem, not being discussed here.)

A bonus to 107ers having this access is knowledgeable eyes and ears that have skin in the game in areas where unsafe flights by others can bee documented and reported.

Agreed, but I'm not going to argue the access that hobbyists have just to argue. The only way to change it is to help the FAA enforce the laws we currently have by reporting the ne'er-do-wells, and by becoming part of an organization that lobbies for our rights to get the current rule changed or amended. What the FAA has accomplished for UAS in just the past couple of years is nothing short of astonishing for an organization that is used to moving at a much slower pace. They have become much more receptive to change, now that industry has come to them with safe practices, historical data, and constructive recommendations. As previously stated by others, the FAA has no regulatory control over hobbyists, except to ensure the safety of the national airspace. However, the FAA CAN take action against hobbyists that violate that safety with careless or reckless operations. No sense in complaining about what we can't do. It takes up time and energy better spent elsewhere.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Call it preparation for a "Redress of grievances."

 

[Jimmykjimmy]

I am working on getting th FAA certification. I met with a gal that needs to do aerials to stay competitive in real estate photos. I carefully explained that being a scofflaw has major issues if she crashes or causes damage to property. I think she got the message.
In the case above maybe it's time this with certification start reporting these incidents to the FAA. At least it's a start.

 

[boefinator]

Adopting an adversarial stance with FAA is not going to help your cause. Those guys don't make the rules, they're just doing their job. We operate in South Florida, which might have the highest density of restricted airspace outside of DC. There are airports everywhere, large and small. There is a B, 2 C's, and loads of D's, all within our operating area. We have COA's in place for most of the areas we work in. When we need a new one quickly, we file online and then pick up the phone and call our local FSDO. Explain the situation and the safety techs there will almost always help you out and push the auth through. You just need to be respectful and treat them like you want to be treated. I'm sure there are a few out there that will give you a hard time, but so far we have done ok with them.

And when it comes to the absurd Authorization Process via the portal, that is a complete FAA debacle. I would even venture to say it violates Part 107 in that the rule called for ATC Authorization, not FAA Washington. So I have to disagree with you on this one.

 

[djhefner]

I am amazed at the lack of knowledge you displayed there. I am not trying to be rude or ignorant but I can guarantee that a "hobbyist" is not going to receive authorization to fly in class d, b, c airspaces. As for us "Qualified, Part 107 UAS pilots" yes, they do hold us to a higher standard since we have been through the training, we are expected to know the rules better. Here is the problem with your methodology. It doesn't matter who is flying, inherent risk is present when you involve a drone and manned aircraft no matter where it is. If that drone was to fly off, and trust me they do, and fly into a manned aircraft you would be wishing you listened to that distant bureaucrat. I fail to see any logic in the comment you're making about the rules being bunk. furthermore, the anti-authority stance is never a good or reasonable arguing point.

From the FAQs on the FAA model aircraft webpage:

1. Is model aircraft use prohibited within five statute miles of an airport?

1. 
   There are no legislative prohibitions. However, Section 336 of Public Law 112-95 requires the operator of the model aircraft to notify the airport operator and airport traffic control tower (if one is located on the airport) prior to operating within five miles of an airport. For ease in determining distances, the FAAinterprets this as five statute[5] miles from an airport reference point (ARP) as denoted in the current FAA Digital - Chart Supplement (d-CS) or for airports not denoted with an ARP, the center of the airport symbol as denoted on the current FAA-published aeronautical chart. Please note that model aircraft operators must also comply with the requirements of the airspace where they intend to fly the model aircraft. Please refer the model aircraft operator to the local airport traffic control tower, if one is located at the airport, for specific questions on airspace operating requirements.

 

[John]

Yes, the SOP for air traffic managers is to refer requestors to: Request a Waiver/Airspace Authorization – Small Unmanned Aircraft System (sUAS). In the Waiver/Airspace Authorization section, the first option is "Regulation subject to airspace authorization." That is what one selects for a one-off request with the expected TAT of 2-3 weeks. The "Regulation subject to waiver" section has a TAT of ~ 90 days with a waiver approved up to 2 years.

 

[boefinator]

Greetings all,
This has been a great thread! As a former Army helicopter pilot, licensed UAS operator, and employee of a defense contractor, I guess you all know where I stand. I think T Bird brought up a really great point when he said to contact your local FSDO after you submit your request - this will definitely expedite the process. Continue to do the right thing legally by applying for your COA online. It is easier than you think, faster than you think, and the FAA provides explicit instructions on how to do it right smack in the middle of the page. Look for the link to the "Performance Based Standards" and it will tell you exactly what the FAA wants to see in the waiver. We just received our night waiver and it was approved for a four-year period.

To take it a step further and try to be helpful, I will say this. We have trained several law enforcement agencies and nearly every one of them knew nothing about drones before they received any training. Now, they are all armed with the FAA's guidance to law enforcement on what to do when they encounter unsafe or unauthorized operations. Download this information, keep it with you, and let your local police know about it: Law Enforcement engagement with Suspected Unauthorized UAS Operations.

Last, know that the FAA isn't equipped to handle every UAS violation, and they provided the guidance above to get some assistance from local law enforcement. If that is not enough, YOU still have the ability to report unsafe/unauthorized operations yourself. When the FAA receives a report, they are required to investigate it. Here is the Hotline link: FAA Hotline.

Hope I didn't piss anybody off.

As a side note, most local LEO's have zero authority to detain people for FAA Safety Regulation Violations, unless there is an accompanying violation of state or municipal ordinance.

 

[djhefner]

From the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act:

SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—
(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-
based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program adminis-
tered by a community-based organization;
(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
(5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport)).
(b) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall
be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system.
(c) MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is—
(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
H. R. 658—68
(2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and
(3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes

 

[Planter]

Folks, after retiring from a major US University I learned a
couple of things. In all matters there's the right way,
The wrong way and (in this case) the FAA way of doing
things. Either follow the regs or get busted.
Are they fair? Maybe not, but they are The regs until they
get changed. You can help with that. Your
US Congressman helps make the rules and can
talk with the bureaucracy. If you have issues communicate!
As a Part 107 PIC I, like you, have a vested interest
in streamlining the process.

 

[SkipTV]

All you have to do to see what a mess the system is, is to look at the test questions for the 107, seriously why all the 'airplane questions" why does a drone pilot need too know about G forces, or to read a weather report with information on weather at altitudes over 400 feet AGL. If they (FAA) were worried about safety, they would have a practical test, that a flight student would take after completing say 10 hours of flight time at a certified flight school. Knowing where and when you can fly a drone, is not near as dangerous as not know how to actually fly it at all. Lets face it, these "rules" are starting to kill the industry. Parrot fired 300 people, and rumor has it next week Yunek, is firing 70% of its work force in the US. Worse yet the Safety Transportation Board can out with a report that said, every, every reported drone/jet close call was actually birds. You can help with the process by simply posting on the FAA comments website.