Advice on shooting at Night

howard rockliffe · Dec 1, 2017

I normally shoot with the Inspire 1v2 with the X5 pro, however, it may be that we have a job in a week's time to cover material at night, and I mean night, in a city centre. I suggested shooting with the I2 X5S in ProRes. I have not used this format before, but the added dynamic range and lower compression, would be enormous benefit on this kind of shoot. Can anyone offer any advice on my proposal. The biggest information I need, is the low light ability of the X5S and how far I could push the ISO without it becoming unacceptable. Any help appreciated, cheers.

giumick · Dec 2, 2017

could you not use a x5r pal and save the hire cost on an i2 if you dont already have one. Im sure you would get some decent results with raw data as we have in the past.

howard rockliffe · Dec 2, 2017

giumick said:
could you not use a x5r pal and save the hire cost on an i2 if you dont already have one. Im sure you would get some decent results with raw data as we have in the past.

Hiya, sure. The X5R option was our first thought, but after reading quite a few posts, the impression I get is that it's a dog's dinner when it comes to the workflow. I've also read that the low light ability is not that hot (which sounds rather odd) not to mention the size of the files. I find it difficult getting information from other pros on the forum, as you are often unaware of who is giving advice and their experience. My idea would be to shoot in ProRes with the I2. To be honest, I may be doing the X5pro a disservice, which is what I usually shoot with, as I am only assuming the X5S or X5R would be a better option. I have not piloted either the X5s or the X5r, only operated in the past. This possible job is for another pilot who wants to bring me in as cameraman option, as he has no experience shooting with either. I have to add to the equation that I am an experienced pilot and am a former TV cameraman. From what you say, am I right in thinking you have shot with the X5r?

giumick · Dec 2, 2017

@niki Here is a man who has used the x5r for night shoots and got good results.

And i have shot at night with ours too yeah but i am not experienced at night work if i am honest. The results were good though that we got in a city. I would think as long as other people ok it that you would do just fine with artificial light around to help it along.

I know alot of people dislike the workflow with the x5r but we have a brand new 6 core etc etc pc and with proxies on it handles the dngs easy so ive never had issues.

Wait for Niki to pitch in as he helped me out last time but from my experience i would say it would do fine.

howard rockliffe · Dec 2, 2017

giumick said:
@niki Here is a man who has used the x5r for night shoots and got good results.

And i have shot at night with ours too yeah but i am not experienced at night work if i am honest. The results were good though that we got in a city. I would think as long as other people ok it that you would do just fine with artificial light around to help it along.

I know alot of people dislike the workflow with the x5r but we have a brand new 6 core etc etc pc and with proxies on it handles the dngs easy so ive never had issues.

Wait for Niki to pitch in as he helped me out last time but from my experience i would say it would do fine.

Ahh, that sounds like great news. I appreciate your help. To be honest, I'd prefer to go down that route and assemble the X5r to my Inspire 1v2 rather than bring in another aircraft. What would you say would be the maximum ISO available without seeing unreasonable noise?

giumick · Dec 2, 2017

howard rockliffe said:
Ahh, that sounds like great news. I appreciate your help. To be honest, I'd prefer to go down that route and assemble the X5r to my Inspire 1v2 rather than bring in another aircraft. What would you say would be the maximum ISO available without seeing unreasonable noise?

400 is about the limit Niki told me and it worked for me aswell

niki · Dec 4, 2017

If I have access to x5s I will choose to shoot with it on 5K, according the specs this camera should have less noise compared to x5r but I haven't tried it yet.
But x5r will do the job as well, keeping the iso no more than 400 and shutter at 1/25.
For some night shots in the past we have used neat video, but most of the night shots where fine and didn't had the need of denoising them in post.

howard rockliffe · Dec 4, 2017

niki said:
If I have access to x5s I will choose to shoot with it on 5K, according the specs this camera should have less noise compared to x5r but I haven't tried it yet.
But x5r will do the job as well, keeping the iso no more than 400 and shutter at 1/25.
For some night shots in the past we have used neat video, but most of the night shots where fine and didn't had the need of denoising them in post.

Thanks for the reply Niki, help very much appreciated.

Steve@AerialImagesPro · Dec 4, 2017

Not sure you can get a night flight waiver in time either unless you have one already. The waiver request system is supposed to be up soon but I haven't heard anything more on it. It's still a very frustrating process.

howard rockliffe · Dec 4, 2017

Steve@AerialImagesPro said:
Not sure you can get a night flight waiver in time either unless you have one already. The waiver request system is supposed to be up soon but I haven't heard anything more on it. It's still a very frustrating process.

No probs, I would be flying for the pilot. I would be camera operating. It's all academic now anyway, as the client has pulled the job!

Michael91 · Dec 6, 2017

youll probably want to shoot in dlog on the inspire 2, that defaults the iso to 500, and ive found it to be relatively clean.

proress will be nice, but for what your looking for, the sensor size would probably make a bigger difference than the bitrate, and seeing as theyre both micro 4/3rds, the inspire 1 and 2 will see similar results for raw footage. proress would give you some small bit of an edge alrite tho.

if you want my advice, id say if its at all possible to try and do the shoot at dusk or dawn while theres still some light in the sky, and shoot either with the sunset/dawn behind you or behind you to the side. itll bring out alot of the detail in the shadows that would otherwise be missed if your doing a complete night shot. youd end up with something like those guys that did the inspire 2 flight over Shanghai

this one to be exact ->

all that being said, in my opinion, ISO 800 is plenty clean enough if your committed to a night shot.

howard rockliffe · Dec 6, 2017

Michael91 said:
youll probably want to shoot in dlog on the inspire 2, that defaults the iso to 500, and ive found it to be relatively clean.

proress will be nice, but for what your looking for, the sensor size would probably make a bigger difference than the bitrate, and seeing as theyre both micro 4/3rds, the inspire 1 and 2 will see similar results for raw footage. proress would give you some small bit of an edge alrite tho.

if you want my advice, id say if its at all possible to try and do the shoot at dusk or dawn while theres still some light in the sky, and shoot either with the sunset/dawn behind you or behind you to the side. itll bring out alot of the detail in the shadows that would otherwise be missed if your doing a complete night shot. youd end up with something like those guys that did the inspire 2 flight over Shanghai

this one to be exact ->

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all that being said, in my opinion, ISO 800 is plenty clean enough if your committed to a night shot.

Thanks for the reply Michael, sure, I have experience shooting much TV footage at night, just not drone wise. Unfortunately we would not have had the value of the 'golden' hour, or dawn light, as the task was going to be undertaken after 10pm! That was my biggest worry. But it's all academic as the company decided in the end they didn't want a drone flying around their expensive cranes in the dead of night! Can't say I'm sorry. It get's pretty cold at this time of year

Cheers.