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USA §333 Process - After/During Comment Period

I find it interesting that the pilots that have a 333 and lic etc put up videos on there facebook pages showing infractions to the 333 exemption. Such as violating #26 500Ft from any non participating party that is not in or behind a barricade. #6 using an observer etc. It seems that it is virtually impossible to do a flight by the rules. This is my first post and I hope I am not coming across the wrong way. I am not looking to start an argument I am just trying to get some clarification on the 333 ruling.

Thanks
 
Well, I seriously doubt the FAA has he time and staff to patrol cities looking for violations or the web doing the same. As a licensed pilot I assure you they don't even have the staff to look for manned aircraft violations. Safety enforcement in the aviation world relies on report from ATC staff (tower controllers), citizens, and self policing, pilots reporting other pilots.
 
"A lot of the letters that were given"

I guess I am slow or uninformed, but what letters are you referring to? To the best of my knowledge the FAA does not post warning letters on their website. Don't wish to be argumentative, just want to know as much about this topic as I can.
 
In the past I was an FFL holder and had gathered abundant information of people performing a Straw Purchase including store video copys of driver's licences etc and when reported to the ATF there response was "we will look into it". I would follow up one year later and there was never any charges or prosecution and that was for purchasing a gun illegally, so if they are not going to enforce that I just wonder about this.
 
Who knows? I'll never try to predict what any federal agency will do.
The airmen who have received FAA sanctions over the years can vouch for them. As a young private pilot in 1970 I decided to buzz my girlfriend's house, way too low. The FAA inspector was waiting for me on the tarmac when I landed. He saw I was just a young stupid kid and only gave me a warning followed by a threat that my license was hanging on a thin thread from then on, and that he would be watching me. I flew "straight and level" since. :rolleyes:
 
I find it interesting that the pilots that have a 333 and lic etc put up videos on there facebook pages showing infractions to the 333 exemption. Such as violating #26 500Ft from any non participating party that is not in or behind a barricade. #6 using an observer etc. It seems that it is virtually impossible to do a flight by the rules. This is my first post and I hope I am not coming across the wrong way. I am not looking to start an argument I am just trying to get some clarification on the 333 ruling.

Thanks
WBTRC

I think you are posing a good question and I would like some clarification also, but when i go down to the local FSDO Office and ask the UAV specialist about certain things, like how do I go about x. We will laugh and sometimes he does not have an answer.

When it come to the 500 ft rule, if you look over what they are exempting, I feel there needs to be an interpretation, yes as a UAV you need to ask for that in a waver, since you can not technically fly above 400ft.

The waver for rule 91.119 (c), being able to fly below 500 ft and they make up for the altitude separation by basically saying when flying below this minimum safe flight altitude, we will allow you to do so but since you are coming down below what we require for a safe distance you will now need to make up for it by extending the vertical separation distance outwards, up to 500 ft at ground lever to accommodate what section (c) addresses.

I understand this and I have no issues in the way that it's addressed, if asked I believe that distance rule for UAV's would be better fitted at 300ft. Here's the rub, I feel if you are going to adapt aircraft rule to these devices and we are wavering them (bending - I said it) to operate then we should also include all the rules.

91.119 (d) I find it odd that when they composed 333 operation section they specifically did not include this rule

(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.


This is exactly what I was getting at in my previous post, if you are going to require a rated pilot to control the aircraft then you also need to allow that pilot to exercise his abilities to make aircraft decisions as they would do in the flying environment for the type of aircraft they are flying.

In this case section d basically says, when flying a helicopter you can bring down that minimum safe distance as long as the operation is performed in a way that if an event happens, the aircraft will not harm any no participating people or structures.

So this is where I think the 500 ft rule is not clear, instead of addressing the type of UAS that we are flying they are just treating the whole category as one. They are applying rules that are written for fixed wing aircraft operating in navigable airspace. I would like to have the rules apply to match the type of aircraft that are being flown.
 
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All good info but... if you obtain a licence and 333 doesn't that put you on the radar to be held to a higher standard that can not be achieved? Relating it back to Firearm sales. If you have an FFL you are required to keep all sorts of records and are inspected multiple time a year. If you are a private seller at a gun show you do not fall under any rules you can sell a gun to an out of state person or under age etc with no penalty. There are plenty of agents and nothing happens to them. From what I am reading there are few FAA enforcement officers so why spend thousands of dollars for something that does not make you a better pilot and puts you on there list? I primarily fly 3D RC Helicopters 550 and 700 which can kill you in a hart beat if they are flown without taking precautions for distance etc. There have been cases of people decapitated in public parks with them and no one had gone to jail or even fined to my knowledge.
 
"why spend thousands of dollars for something that does not make you a better pilot and puts you on there list?"

Why get a driver's license, plates and insurance?
to operate a car legally?

You get a driver's license because there are many law enforcement officers and laws that are enforced. You get insurance for the same reason you have it for your RC aircraft to cover your assets and others if they are injured to make them whole again. If there were no police and obtaining a car licence required you to not exceed 25 MPH only during daylight hours with at least one other person in the car, if you see another person you must pull over and wait for them to pass. Then after you use your car you have to file a report to the State Police. Or on the other hand you could drive normally with no licence and no fear of being caught would you get one? My drivers licence only cost $12 so it is very affordable. I did not have to attend any school to get one just pass a test to obtain it. The test was given locally so it was easy to obtain. It did not make me a better driver but the prose outway the cons in having one.
 
I see this question is going down the wrong road. I was hoping to get some insight on what others feel about flying their RC aircraft without the 333 exemption. I see there is one other that said there were "Solo" so they could not get one. That is why I asked why get a 333 if you know you will be breaking the rules when flying anyway.
 
I see this question is going down the wrong road. I was hoping to get some insight on what others feel about flying their RC aircraft without the 333 exemption. I see there is one other that said there were "Solo" so they could not get one. That is why I asked why get a 333 if you know you will be breaking the rules when flying anyway.
I think you got your answers. There are tons of irresponsible law breakers out there. As for me, I've stated publicly I'll report any illegal operator to the FAA and hope every 333 operator does the same, what they do is up to them.
 
"A lot of the letters that were given"

I guess I am slow or uninformed, but what letters are you referring to? To the best of my knowledge the FAA does not post warning letters on their website. Don't wish to be argumentative, just want to know as much about this topic as I can.

I thought a poster on this thread kcobello received a letter from the FAA, posted about this a couple months ago. Maybe he can elaborate
I see this question is going down the wrong road. I was hoping to get some insight on what others feel about flying their RC aircraft without the 333 exemption. I see there is one other that said there were "Solo" so they could not get one. That is why I asked why get a 333 if you know you will be breaking the rules when flying anyway.

I think if you kept firearms and FFA and ATF out of this FAA issue we would all be better off. I see these as two different entities with two different agendas.
 
"A lot of the letters that were given"

I guess I am slow or uninformed, but what letters are you referring to? To the best of my knowledge the FAA does not post warning letters on their website. Don't wish to be argumentative, just want to know as much about this topic as I can.
It's a warning letter to let you know......they know.....that you are out there and you have to follow the rules of the current aircraft regs and to fly safely. We had been doing AP for 5 years before a lot of the enforcement started hitting hard. We were safe when we flew but also pushed the envelope like a lot of people do. We now have come full circle and are waiting our 333. Mine came from the Rochester field office....
 
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I think you got your answers. There are tons of irresponsible law breakers out there. As for me, I've stated publicly I'll report any illegal operator to the FAA and hope every 333 operator does the same, what they do is up to them.
I understand fully and do agree with your view on reporting, but when you are posting videos on your facebook page that have violations of the 333 the coin can be flipped and the person you report can report you for not following the rules. I guess a better question would be How many 333 holders can honestly say every flight they conduct is well within the 333 exemption. From the YouTube videos I have seen there is not a one. The point being if you can not fly within the rules why spend the time and money to get the 333 just to break the rules again.

Thanks for all of the input on this subject it is interesting to find out more about this industry.
 
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I don't disagree with you, just with the statement that
"A lot of the letters that were given were from people reporting commercial flights and or rule violations"
Where did you get that info?
I should reword it to reflect what my letter said and the field officer who I had a 30 minute conversation with. Basically that is what I was told by him and the person who turned me in. Yes, I know who did. My letter also states of being reported. I was also informed that this "blow in your neighbor", way of reporting will be the wave of the future.....:)
 
I agree with WBTRC statement regarding the rules for 333. How is it possible to do any AP work when you need to be 500' away from people or buildings? Unless you apply for closed set 333 and or have all participants sign off on your flight?
 
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