UK Renewing PFAW with the CAA

[BlackBee]

Hi, is charge still £112 to CAA for Renewal? I cant find anywhere if anything changed since last year? Cheers.

 

[The Editor]

Hi, is charge still £112 to CAA for Renewal? I cant find anywhere if anything changed since last year? Cheers.

Depends - Renewal for 7kg or less is £56
Renewal of 7-20kg is £112
20kg - 150kg is £208
Greater than 150kg is £208 plus £166 per hour check for anything over 4 hours in respect of air worthiness etc.

I think you are getting confused with the initial charge for a new PFAW sub 7kg which is £112. Renewals are cheaper.

 

[BlackBee]

I was just about to give them too much! thanks a lot, that a pleasant surprise!

 

[The Editor]

I was just about to give them too much! .....

You don't want to do that !!!!

Here - (Table No. 5) https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ORS5 No 307 .pdf

 

[BlackBee]

Thanks for this file. I was looking for this thing. Renewal for 7kg or less is £56. Cool!!!

 

[BlackBee]

Hi guys!
It might sound stupid question but I just want to make sure I send SRG1320 for renewal it to right email address
Is this is the email you are sending for renewal? [email protected] - this was the email at SRG1320
But in the automatic response email I received there was email which I thought I should be sending to - [email protected]

I just want to make sure I am not waiting for months and there is nothing happening because I did sent to wrong address.
And do they respond in any way or acknowledge receiving application? Thanks.

 

[The Editor]

Hi guys!
It might sound stupid question but I just want to make sure I send SRG1320 for renewal it to right email address
Is this is the email you are sending for renewal? [email protected] - this was the email at SRG1320
But in the automatic response email I received there was email which I thought I should be sending to - [email protected]

I just want to make sure I am not waiting for months and there is nothing happening because I did sent to wrong address.
And do they respond in any way or acknowledge receiving application? Thanks.

The first one!

 

[BlackBee]

O, Good... Now just have to wait... Thanks

 

[apsussex]

Nope.
You still have BNUC-s (that was your qualification) you just dont have a pretty little pointless card that Euro like to charge £Silly.xxx for and scare you into thinking that without it you cant do anything.

I have just had alarm bells ringing on this, as I thought once you pass your BNUC-S then that is it, but an email from Euro USC says that if you dont renew it, then your BNUC-S is not valid? what do you make of that?. I am also in the process of filling in some forms to fly at a National Trust site, but one of the questions is... "Do you hold a formal UAS (Unmanned Aircraft Systems) qualification from a training provider accredited by the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority)?" then in small print it says that an NT Supervisor needs to check that it is in date before the permission can be signed off.

 

[The Editor]

I have just had alarm bells ringing on this, as I thought once you pass your BNUC-S then that is it, but an email from Euro USC says that if you dont renew it, then your BNUC-S is not valid? what do you make of that?. I am also in the process of filling in some forms to fly at a National Trust site, but one of the questions is... "Do you hold a formal UAS (Unmanned Aircraft Systems) qualification from a training provider accredited by the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority)?" then in small print it says that an NT Supervisor needs to check that it is in date before the permission can be signed off.

This is EuroUSC being an a*se and scaremongering AGAIN!
It REALLY pees me off how this company operates.
Don't forget this is the same outfit that even after the CAA issues a statement addendum to the ANO stating that additional and substitute UAV aircraft added to your fleet do not require additional flight assessment or certification, still ignored all remits coming from the CAA!
That was not good enough for the likes of Euro because they didn't want to give up a lucrative revenue stream. So they went directly against the CAA instructions and continued to insist additional aircraft had to be individually assessed. Unbelievable.
Anyway, sorry, I digress (rant), your 'qualification' is for life. The CAA do not require UAV operators to take yearly tests on sub 20kg machines and therefore your certificate remains with you. As you know, your PFAW is the important thing and must be renewed each year.
There are quite a few people now on this forum who have ditched renewing the 'Magic BNUC-s and have had no issues whatsoever renewing their PFAW via SRG1320 which they have submitted themselves without the "help" (and cost) of Euro.
I did some work a while back for a heritage trust and the same hoops had to be jumped through. They were only interested in seeing my current PFAW and my insurance certificate both of which I gave them hard copies as well as PDF versions.
Certain hold harmless contracts were signed and I had some documents to sign as well as them sign my contracts and permissions.
You can actually call up/email the head of locations and filming at the NT (but I can't for the life of me remember his name sorry) to clarify things and their requirements.

Hope that (kind of) helps

 

[apsussex]

This is EuroUSC being an a*se and scaremongering AGAIN!
It REALLY pees me off how this company operates.
Don't forget this is the same outfit that even after the CAA issues a statement addendum to the ANO stating that additional and substitute UAV aircraft added to your fleet do not require additional flight assessment or certification, still ignored all remits coming from the CAA!
That was good enough for the likes of Euro because they didn't want to give up a lucrative revenue stream. So they went directly against the CAA instructions and continued to insist additional aircraft had to be individually assessed. Unbelievable.
Anyway, sorry, I digress (rant), your 'qualification' is for life. The CAA do not require UAV operators to take yearly tests on sub 20kg machines and therefore your certificate remains with you. As you know, your PFAW is the important thing and must be renewed each year.
There are quite a few people now on this forum who have ditched renewing the 'Magin BNUC-s and have had no issues whatsoever renewing their PFAW via SRG1320 which they have submitted themselves without the "help" (and cost) of Euro.
I did some work a while back for a heritage trust and the same hoops had to be jumped through. They were only interested in seeing my current PFAW and my insurance certificate both of which I gave them hard copies as well as PDF versions.
Certain hold harmless contracts were signed and I had some documents to sign as well as them sign my contracts and permissions.
You can actually call up/email the head of locations and filming at the NT (but I can't for the life of me remember his name sorry) to clarify things and their requirements.

Hope that (kind of) helps

Thanks for that clarification Mark, there was always in the back of my mind, should I renew with Euro USC or not, and this recent email and paperwork for NT did stop me in my tracks a bit, but I think now I will be the wiser and definitely not renew with them. They list EuroUSC on their paperwork as having the BNUC-S qualification so in future when my BNUC-s supposedly expires with EuroUSC and other work for NT does come up then at least I can challenge it. Head of locations is Harvey Edgington, and first person that hasn't shot me down in flames when trying to get permission to fly at a NT site.

 

[Cyclops]

Thanks for that clarification Mark, there was always in the back of my mind, should I renew with Euro USC or not, and this recent email and paperwork for NT did stop me in my tracks a bit, but I think now I will be the wiser and definitely not renew with them. They list EuroUSC on their paperwork as having the BNUC-S qualification so in future when my BNUC-s supposedly expires with EuroUSC and other work for NT does come up then at least I can challenge it. Head of locations is Harvey Edgington, and first person that hasn't shot me down in flames when trying to get permission to fly at a NT site.

Hi apsussex, I’ve done some flying for the National Trust and they were very strict about checking all my professional credentials, insurance, risk assessments etc.

They are very much on the ball about the legal and safety aspects of operating UAVs on their properties and their UAV Contractor Checklist asks for proof of CAA certification, whether you hold an active qualification from an accredited training provider and evidence of insurance.

They went through all my documents carefully and came back with a formal document for me sign. This clearly stated where, when and how I could fly.

Having completed my training with EuroUSC meant I had everything to hand. Whilst approaching other bodies for permission to fly I have referred to all these documents. It just helps reassure people that you take safe operations seriously.

My insurer also asks for my operator qualifications.

My BNUC-S is just up for renewal and, whilst The Editor might well be correct that renewing this document is not absolutely necessary, I’ve decided to maintain my relationship with EuroUSC and go through the procedure for renewing my qualification.

This is both to keep my card up to date for the next time I do work with the National Trust or want to take shots on their properties but also to keep my own skills and Operating Manual up to date.

Whilst I found the EuroUSC training pretty old fashioned and service based it was very thorough and has given me a clear understanding of my responsibilities of working safely in the aerial realm. I also found all my contacts at EuroUSC to be knowledgable, supportive and professional.

Apart from maintaining and improving my flying skills operating safely is a constant concern for me ( and keeping up with DJI’s constant software updates) and I feel that refreshing my training with EuroUSC, having them check through my documents will hopefully prevent me becoming complacent.

 

[apsussex]

Hi apsussex, I’ve done some flying for the National Trust and they were very strict about checking all my professional credentials, insurance, risk assessments etc.

They are very much on the ball about the legal and safety aspects of operating UAVs on their properties and their UAV Contractor Checklist asks for proof of CAA certification, whether you hold an active qualification from an accredited training provider and evidence of insurance.

They went through all my documents carefully and came back with a formal document for me sign. This clearly stated where, when and how I could fly.

Having completed my training with EuroUSC meant I had everything to hand. Whilst approaching other bodies for permission to fly I have referred to all these documents. It just helps reassure people that you take safe operations seriously.

My insurer also asks for my operator qualifications.

My BNUC-S is just up for renewal and, whilst The Editor might well be correct that renewing this document is not absolutely necessary, I’ve decided to maintain my relationship with EuroUSC and go through the procedure for renewing my qualification.

This is both to keep my card up to date for the next time I do work with the National Trust or want to take shots on their properties but also to keep my own skills and Operating Manual up to date.

Whilst I found the EuroUSC training pretty old fashioned and service based it was very thorough and has given me a clear understanding of my responsibilities of working safely in the aerial realm. I also found all my contacts at EuroUSC to be knowledgable, supportive and professional.

Apart from maintaining and improving my flying skills operating safely is a constant concern for me ( and keeping up with DJI’s constant software updates) and I feel that refreshing my training with EuroUSC, having them check through my documents will hopefully prevent me becoming complacent.

Thanks of your reply on this Cyclops. Yes it seems they are very strict with checking credentials, which of course is not a problem at all (and a good thing). It was more to the fact that, alarm bells rang with regards to the necessity of having to renew the BNUC-s via EuroUSC and it does seem on this occasion absolutely not, but it is the way EuroUSC go about thing which annoy people and I can see why. My BNUC-s isnt up for renewal until early July, and it was only what was written on the document about having a valid operator qualification which made me think, is this something that does actually need to be renewed. I respect your views on not wanting to become complacent and having them check your documents each year, that is a fair point.

NT have my credentials and risk assessment now anyway, so we`ll see what they come back with. I do wonder if in future having my details on their system will actually make it easier to get permission to fly or take photos on one of their sites. The first time I contacted them the reply was.. "we don`t allow drones on any of our sites inline with CAA rules, the only exception is the use of drones for major filming projects such as Poldark, etc" You would think a huge production would be more of a headache for them.

 

[The Editor]

Thanks of your reply on this Cyclops. Yes it seems they are very strict with checking credentials, which of course is not a problem at all (and a good thing). It was more to the fact that, alarm bells rang with regards to the necessity of having to renew the BNUC-s via EuroUSC and it does seem on this occasion absolutely not, but it is the way EuroUSC go about thing which annoy people and I can see why. My BNUC-s isnt up for renewal until early July, and it was only what was written on the document about having a valid operator qualification which made me think, is this something that does actually need to be renewed. I respect your views on not wanting to become complacent and having them check your documents each year, that is a fair point.

NT have my credentials and risk assessment now anyway, so we`ll see what they come back with. I do wonder if in future having my details on their system will actually make it easier to get permission to fly or take photos on one of their sites. The first time I contacted them the reply was.. "we don`t allow drones on any of our sites inline with CAA rules, the only exception is the use of drones for major filming projects such as Poldark, etc" You would think a huge production would be more of a headache for them.

Out of interest Sam, are you asking permission from NT for a 'production' or company filming project or is this for personal shoot to gain some B-Roll material or similar (but obviously utilising your PFAW etc to satisfy them for the permission?)

 

[Cyclops]

Thanks of your reply on this Cyclops. Yes it seems they are very strict with checking credentials, which of course is not a problem at all (and a good thing). It was more to the fact that, alarm bells rang with regards to the necessity of having to renew the BNUC-s via EuroUSC and it does seem on this occasion absolutely not, but it is the way EuroUSC go about thing which annoy people and I can see why. My BNUC-s isnt up for renewal until early July, and it was only what was written on the document about having a valid operator qualification which made me think, is this something that does actually need to be renewed. I respect your views on not wanting to become complacent and having them check your documents each year, that is a fair point.

NT have my credentials and risk assessment now anyway, so we`ll see what they come back with. I do wonder if in future having my details on their system will actually make it easier to get permission to fly or take photos on one of their sites. The first time I contacted them the reply was.. "we don`t allow drones on any of our sites inline with CAA rules, the only exception is the use of drones for major filming projects such as Poldark, etc" You would think a huge production would be more of a headache for them.

Yes, a lot of people seem to have the hump with EuroUSC.

However they are only charging me £75 + Vat for the renewal and it means my Operating Manual will have been updated for when I get my CAA PFAW renewed in couple of months.

My interest is in aerial archaeological photography and video and I really hope the NT don't get too protective about allowing responsible access to the land they safeguard. The main thing is to develop and maintain relationships with individuals within the organisation.

 

[apsussex]

Out of interest Sam, are you asking permission from NT for a 'production' or company filming project or is this for personal shoot to gain some B-Roll material or similar (but obviously utilising your PFAW etc to satisfy them for the permission?)

Its a filming project for a TV company. They want "pretty" footage for a documentary being produced. I said that I generally don`t have luck with NT for permissions, but it seems with them being involved it ended up being easier than I had expected, plus also this is straight forward as I will be flying over water for the most part. Obviously they will fit the bill for the admin and location fee which looking at the costs is something I wouldn't do for myself if it was allowed unless of course I could sell on as stock footage.

 

[apsussex]

Yes, a lot of people seem to have the hump with EuroUSC.

However they are only charging me £75 + Vat for the renewal and it means my Operating Manual will have been updated for when I get my CAA PFAW renewed in couple of months.

My interest is in aerial archaeological photography and video and I really hope the NT don't get too protective about allowing responsible access to the land they safeguard. The main thing is to develop and maintain relationships with individuals within the organisation.

That is exactly it, developing a relationship or foot in the door so to speak with an organisation like this should make it easier in the future. NT are very strict as it is and if I am honest I didn't think I would ever really have a chance of filming at one of their sites. I have a job coming up which is creating a short film for the wildlife trust and this also involves being on English Heritage land. Both permissions have been granted so it is nice to build a relationship with these organisations for future work anyway, plus for me this is the kind of work I absolutely love to do anyway.

I thought this was very useful.. got sent to me with the documents... NT Land Map

 

[Cyclops]

Thanks for the map and good luck with your project

 

[Cyclops]

Just adding my experience of renewing both my BNUCs and CAA PFAW.

Both went very smoothly. The trick is to leave enough time for each to renewed to process. The Euro USC BNUCs renewal involves submitting the flying / pilots log and reviewing and updating the operations manual. This was quite useful as I could streamline several of the operational checklists and the process reminded me of the training I received the year before. Overall I feel the training needs to be further adapted towards DJI Phantom and Inspire pilots because the technology has leapt forward even in the 2 years since I commenced flying. So I had a bit of a to and fro about where the centre of balance of craft is, vital in larger craft with variable payloads but not so relevant with the Inspire with its fixed battery and proprietary camera systems.

The CAA renewal is very straight forward. Takes a while as there are so many of us registered Pilots here in the UK now. 1769 as of the 20th May 2016. That's actually not as many as I had thought there would be so that seems to have slowed down.

All you need to do is fill in the online form SRG1320, pay them £56 and let them see copies of your Operational Manual, BNUCs or equivalent, insurance and Flying logbook. My renewal came back after 4 working weeks. I had phoned them to enquire about the status of my renewal as I was about to commence a large project and they were very helpful.

So I'm now into my second year of commercial UAV operation, I've yet to recoup my original investment of around £7 thousand pounds for the equipment, training and insurance but we have recently been awarded a contract that will run over the next 6 months and will put the UAV side of the business into the black.

Overall I feel more confident now although I still face each flying mission with a level of trepidation, not for my flying abilities, I play it pretty safe, but for equipment malfunction, especially battery failure. And battery / firmware management seems to be at the heart of safe UAV operations.

 

[The Editor]

Just adding my experience of renewing both my BNUCs and CAA PFAW.

Both went very smoothly. The trick is to leave enough time for each to renewed to process. The Euro USC BNUCs renewal involves submitting the flying / pilots log and reviewing and updating the operations manual. This was quite useful as I could streamline several of the operational checklists and the process reminded me of the training I received the year before. Overall I feel the training needs to be further adapted towards DJI Phantom and Inspire pilots because the technology has leapt forward even in the 2 years since I commenced flying. So I had a bit of a to and fro about where the centre of balance of craft is, vital in larger craft with variable payloads but not so relevant with the Inspire with its fixed battery and proprietary camera systems.

The CAA renewal is very straight forward. Takes a while as there are so many of us registered Pilots here in the UK now. 1769 as of the 20th May 2016. That's actually not as many as I had thought there would be so that seems to have slowed down.

All you need to do is fill in the online form SRG1320, pay them £56 and let them see copies of your Operational Manual, BNUCs or equivalent, insurance and Flying logbook. My renewal came back after 4 working weeks. I had phoned them to enquire about the status of my renewal as I was about to commence a large project and they were very helpful.

So I'm now into my second year of commercial UAV operation, I've yet to recoup my original investment of around £7 thousand pounds for the equipment, training and insurance but we have recently been awarded a contract that will run over the next 6 months and will put the UAV side of the business into the black.

Overall I feel more confident now although I still face each flying mission with a level of trepidation, not for my flying abilities, I play it pretty safe, but for equipment malfunction, especially battery failure. And battery / firmware management seems to be at the heart of safe UAV operations.

Agree with the above - renewal is very straightforward. You actually do not need to send them your flight logs for the whole year, just the last two months is sufficient with proof of at least two hours flight time in that period. So rather than have to scan the entire log I only do the last two pages. Even simpler!