UK Working abroad

[Yellow Fellow]

Hi. I'm UK-based with a CAA Permission for Aerial Work. I've been approached about a job in the Republic of Ireland. Trouble is, it seems that, in order to do it legally, I would have to get a separate (but very similar) Permission for Aerial Work from the Irish Aviation Authority with all the bureaucracy, duplication and cost that would involve...

So, I was wondering, for others out there who regularly do jobs overseas, what is your usual approach? How easy is it to do things legally in different countries? It would be interesting perhaps to use this thread as a bit of a resource for people to share their experiences of this and give advice for others looking to do jobs in various countries...

So anyone done any work in Ireland without a PFAW from the IAA? Is there a way round it like a temporary permit based on your CAA permission?

Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[The Editor]

Hi. I'm UK-based with a CAA Permission for Aerial Work. I've been approached about a job in the Republic of Ireland. Trouble is, it seems that, in order to do it legally, I would have to get a separate (but very similar) Permission for Aerial Work from the Irish Aviation Authority with all the bureaucracy, duplication and cost that would involve...

So, I was wondering, for others out there who regularly do jobs overseas, what is your usual approach? How easy is it to do things legally in different countries? It would be interesting perhaps to use this thread as a bit of a resource for people to share their experiences of this and give advice for others looking to do jobs in various countries...

So anyone done any work in Ireland without a PFAW from the IAA? Is there a way round it like a temporary permit based on your CAA permission?

Thanks for any thoughts!

I would think @IrishSights should be along shortly to help you with this one.
However, since you hold PFAW issued by the CAA you will know that the CAA and the IAA are not one and the same.
Your current PFAW (assuming standard sub 7kg permissions) will cover you for the entire UK but not the Republic of Ireland.
That's the 'official line'..........

 

[IrishSights]

I actually don't fly in the Republic of Ireland yet as I live and operate in Northern Ireland (UK). However they have a similar requirement to the UK CAA.

The form for permission can be found here https://www.iaa.ie/library_download.jsp?libraryID=957. I am told that a BNUC-S is accepted as competence to operate.

Documents required are listed in that document. Quote...

1. The following documents/information must be supplied in support of each application
(i) A copy of the Manufacturers Instructions, Operating Handbook, etc.
(ii) A current photograph of the UAS.
(iii) Manufacturers reliability data (where available).(iv) Insurance Details.
(v) Airworthiness assurance details (where available).(vi) Certificate of Design and Construction (where available).
(vii) Copy of the Operator's Operations Manual

 

[Yellow Fellow]

Thanks for your replies. Hopefully others will pitch in with their experiences too...

 

[TheGolfingGuru]

Could anyone give me any advice on flying legally within France?

I am currently waiting on my PFAW from the CAA for UK operations and hoping to spend the winter season in the ski resorts of France.

Would it be legally sound for me to obtain footage from the Inspire 1 in the ski resorts in France and use it in a Promo video for my business start up? Would this still be classed as commercial gain even though it is my own business?

One idea i have is to film skiers and snowboarders off piste and in the snow park. I realise this would take a lot of planning to make it safe but what would be required of by the French authorities for me to do this legally? From my understanding they accept BNUC-S but a new PFAW for France would be needed.

 

[The Editor]

Could anyone give me any advice on flying legally within France?

I am currently waiting on my PFAW from the CAA for UK operations and hoping to spend the winter season in the ski resorts of France.

Would it be legally sound for me to obtain footage from the Inspire 1 in the ski resorts in France and use it in a Promo video for my business start up? Would this still be classed as commercial gain even though it is my own business?

One idea i have is to film skiers and snowboarders off piste and in the snow park. I realise this would take a lot of planning to make it safe but what would be required of by the French authorities for me to do this legally? From my understanding they accept BNUC-S but a new PFAW for France would be needed.

There is no European qualification (although NQE's who run BNUC-s like to tell people there is......let me guess....EuroUSC???). Additionally, ALL qualifications carry the same weight, whether it be RPC/BNUC etc. Each NQE has gone through the same process to acquire their NQE rating and each course must cover the same criteria. The BNUC-s guys like to pretend their course is the best - it isn't.....they are identical.
The last I heard to fly commercially you’ll need to be a domicile French operator that holds a pilot license (theoretical part only): Private Pilot (PPL) pilot glider or microlight.

The french law defines 7 different categories for different aircrafts and distinguishes areas additionaly in 4 different zones. You’ll need different flight aprovals like a authorization prior each flight/mission.

As yet EASA have not got off their fat ar*e to sort anything out and there is years of arguing yet between countries.
You will not be able to use ANY footage for advertising/promoting your business even if it was obtained in Mongolia. The point is you are advertising for financial gain and that is why you need PFAW first.
With regards to using footage obtained in other countries (assuming you have been granted PFAW first) you are free to use whatever imagery you have acquired and of course you will not be bound by the ANO 166/7 restriction. However, you WILL have to abide by the countries legislation you are shooting in and observe their air laws.

 

[TheGolfingGuru]

Thanks for your reply, its nice to get such an in depth answer. It is sounding like it could be an absolute nightmare to achieve and best worth leaving for the next few years at least. I did some research beforehand and got similar answers to you, its nice to have some clarification from experienced guys on this board, much appreciated.

 

[Yellow Fellow]

I might have a job coming up that will take me to India, Pakistan and Morocco... Has anyone got any experience in doing UAV work in any of those countries...?

 

[The Editor]

I might have a job coming up that will take me to India, Pakistan and Morocco... Has anyone got any experience in doing UAV work in any of those countries...?

Do you hold PFAW?
The reason I ask is that currently the Indian DGCA has drawn up guidelines for commercial operations in India. These are based on Australian and US legislation.
For any commercial flights I would think MoCA (India) would need to give clearance.
With regards to Morocco - my understanding is that UAV's purchased within Morocco can be used but it can be a nightmare getting one into the country for commercial or hobby use. (Check as that may have changed)
Pakistan - I have no info I'm afraid but would imagine it's pretty relaxed. The only difficulty would be if you are working commercially then a lot of poor countries do not want the 'outside world' to see the poverty first hand via video/media etc. Therefore, in an effort to restrict filming, border patrol confiscate UAV equipment and return it upon departure of the country.

 

[Yellow Fellow]

Very helpful - thanks.

I do have a UK PFAW, yes. Have you had any contact with the Indian MoCA yourself? What approach would you suggest? I guess it might be an idea for me to make contact with, and take advice from, a local Indian UAV operator...

With regards to Morocco and Pakistan, I'll have the UAV listed on an ATA carnet as one part of the film equipment I'm travelling with - hopefully that will mean it's not confiscated! It's part of a corporate film shoot I'll be doing. The UAV isn't essential to it - just nice to have...

Again, thank you.

 

[The Editor]

Very helpful - thanks.

I do have a UK PFAW, yes. Have you had any contact with the Indian MoCA yourself? What approach would you suggest? I guess it might be an idea for me to make contact with, and take advice from, a local Indian UAV operator...

With regards to Morocco and Pakistan, I'll have the UAV listed on an ATA carnet as one part of the film equipment I'm travelling with - hopefully that will mean it's not confiscated! It's part of a corporate film shoot I'll be doing. The UAV isn't essential to it - just nice to have...

Again, thank you.

OK, both Pakistan and Morocco are part of ATA Carnet so (hopefully) shouldn't be an issue. If it's a commercial shoot and you are travelling (checking in) flight crates/Peli cases in bulk then I guess your producer should have procured all the relevant permits etc (I say hopefully ).
The only contact for India MoCA I can find easily is:
[email protected] - the guys name is Shri T.N Dewivedi
I have never travelled to India or had to contact MoCA I'm afraid but remember........nothing moves quickly in Indian red tape!
Hope that helps.

 

[andrew259]

Don't take a drone into morocco
Imports are illegal...
If you can get one there it's fine but I heard of one chap who had his impounded and spent a day in jail...



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[The Editor]

Don't take a drone into morocco
Imports are illegal...
If you can get one there it's fine but I heard of one chap who had his impounded and spent a day in jail...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes but the OP has ATA Carnet in place for a commercial shoot so should be fine.

 

[andrew259]

Yes but the OP has ATA Carnet in place for a commercial shoot so should be fine.

A carnet is a passport for equipment..?

If there is a blanket ban on imports, how does a carnet help? I had a shoot there last year and was firmly told to not bring the drone. Carnet or no carnet....

It may have changed.




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[The Editor]

A carnet is a passport for equipment..?

If there is a blanket ban on imports, how does a carnet help? I had a shoot there last year and was firmly told to not bring the drone. Carnet or no carnet....

It may have changed.




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It's a customs agreement between countries that allow for the transportation and tempory import of professional equipment for trade, commercial use etc. The declaration must be filled out and sanctioned but is used regularly for large production companies, the BBC and film crews etc to get equipment in and out of certain geographical locations.

 

[andrew259]

It's a customs agreement between countries that allow for the transportation and tempory import of professional equipment for trade, commercial use etc. The declaration must be filled out and sanctioned but is used regularly for large production companies, the BBC and film crews etc to get equipment in and out of certain geographical locations.

Yes sorry - I know - I use them frequently.

The import of drones is Banned in Morocco - and this has nothing to do with having a carnet or not.

I took advice from the Moroccan embassy in London, before my shoot last year.

I believe you can apply for special permission to bring a drone into morocco - but this will be a very separate issue & department that deals with carnets.






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[The Editor]

Yes sorry - I know - I use them frequently.

The import of drones is Banned in Morocco - and this has nothing to do with having a carnet or not.

I took advice from the Moroccan embassy in London, before my shoot last year.

I believe you can apply for special permission to bring a drone into morocco - but this will be a very separate issue & department that deals with carnets.






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That's why I advised the OP to check the info as the last I heard it was a nightmare unless you had actually purchased the UAV in Morocco.
If I didnt know better anyone would think these countries hate drones!!!

 

[Yellow Fellow]

This is all very helpful - thank you very much both of you for your advice and suggestions.

 

[Yellow Fellow]

I actually don't fly in the Republic of Ireland yet as I live and operate in Northern Ireland (UK). However they have a similar requirement to the UK CAA.

The form for permission can be found here https://www.iaa.ie/library_download.jsp?libraryID=957. I am told that a BNUC-S is accepted as competence to operate.

Documents required are listed in that document. Quote...

1. The following documents/information must be supplied in support of each application
(i) A copy of the Manufacturers Instructions, Operating Handbook, etc.
(ii) A current photograph of the UAS.
(iii) Manufacturers reliability data (where available).(iv) Insurance Details.
(v) Airworthiness assurance details (where available).(vi) Certificate of Design and Construction (where available).
(vii) Copy of the Operator's Operations Manual

Hi there. Just wondering if you ever went ahead and got your Irish permission...?

Do you know whether a standard permission for aerial work from the IAA relaxes the stipulation that a drone cannot be flown within 120 metres of groups of 12 or more people? Or does that rule apply to professional operators as well as amateurs?

Thanks.

 

[IrishSights]

Hi there. Just wondering if you ever went ahead and got your Irish permission...?

Do you know whether a standard permission for aerial work from the IAA relaxes the stipulation that a drone cannot be flown within 120 metres of groups of 12 or more people? Or does that rule apply to professional operators as well as amateurs?

Thanks.

You actually don't need a permit for commercial work under 4kg where standard rules apply. Anything outside of the standard rules needs a Special Operating Permission. Most of my work is in rural areas so I don't need the SOP. All UAVs however must be registered with the IAA.

Eurousc are dealing direct with the IAA for me to see with additions to my ops manual whether they will accept it to gain SOP. They told me directly that I need to do the full ground school and flight test again. Eurousc and myself think this is misinformation. We'll see. There would be a relaxation of congested area, not sure about the 12 people rule though.