USA State laws or FAA who do I follow?

MaverickMcBride · May 24, 2017

So I've had my part 107 license for a while and haven't run into any trouble yet, but today I decided to look up some laws in Louisiana.

The laws are pretty overwelling, there are so many that I don't know if they're laws or just in the works. But examples are,

You can fly over or within a certain radius of schools.
You can't take photos of anyone. (so if someone walks into your shot covering a few miles, you must delete it.
taking photos of any highway is illegal.
flying over someone's home is illegal.
Taking a photo and someone's house appears must be deleted unless all homeowners give permission.

That's just a few that I read before just giving up. So what I'm really getting at is, are these laws voided because the FAA is the federal government and they are the ones who licensed me to fly in America's public airspace? While taking/studying for my license I really only came across what to do if the drone is prohibited from taking off/landing in an area (which I learned that this a legitimate law that can be implemented)

Also, the photography stuff also falling under the First Amendment rights.

RANTING: I don't see these laws applying to Helicopters or planes, if I really wanted to spy on someone I'd probably just use my binoculars or hook up my camera to a telescope.

Casey53 · May 24, 2017

It's a mess overall, and you'll have to follow both no doubt. Maybe fight some gray areas too in the process.

I'd bet that the local ordinances would be enforced no matter what the FAA thinks, i.e. schools, farms or ranches, critical infrastructure, prisons, parks, city property, etc. If you have 10 city or state councilmen or legislators making laws, probably 9 out of 10 will put drones in a bad light and restrict them. I read that Oklahoma is also trying to control flights to over 200 feet in November otherwise you might be trespassing or have privacy issues under that ruling.

Then with the recent lack of need to register drones with the FAA as hobbyists, the ones without a clue will push the anti-drone ordinances even further.

Probably the only assurance you are doing something right is to get a permit from the local city film commissioner with their stamp of approval as with Hollywood and their FilmLA.com commissioner where the permit stuff starts at around $660 per day and goes up. Then deal with the FAA rules on top of that too. Could be costly and time consuming though.

Ryan Van Scotter · May 24, 2017

For a better understanding of privacy, or taking pictures of people in public, go to professional photography forums, then tend to be more informative and accurate. Generally speaking, taking the photo isn't the issue its what you do with it afterwards.

MaverickMcBride · May 24, 2017

Ryan Van Scotter said:
For a better understanding of privacy, or taking pictures of people in public, go to professional photography forums, then tend to be more informative and accurate. Generally speaking, taking the photo isn't the issue its what you do with it afterwards.

I'm pretty well informed of the photography stuff, it's just annoying that if I get caught doing something legal, I could potentially have to spend thousands to correct their mistake. A cop once told me that I wasn't allowed to take photos in public because children were present in the area. I cringed with I looked up and saw 40 security cameras and his body camera taking footage of the same place.

Now I just found out about the registration things being shut down. That makes me really question if these silly laws now apply to hobbyist and not part 107 pilots. If the FAA can't control the hobbyist, I feel like that means these laws are enforceable and will directly affect me even though I'm licensed.

Ryan Van Scotter · May 24, 2017

I feel your pain. Make no mistake about it the FAA has declared a war on drones, making it incredibly difficult, timely and costly to do much of anything. I was excited for 5 minutes when the DJI spark was announced because I thought just maybe it was under .55 lbs. but nope it's .65 lbs... Screwed again.

licensed pilot · May 25, 2017

MaverickMcBride said:
So I've had my part 107 license for a while and haven't run into any trouble yet, but today I decided to look up some laws in Louisiana.

The laws are pretty overwelling, there are so many that I don't know if they're laws or just in the works. But examples are,

You can fly over or within a certain radius of schools.

You can't take photos of anyone. (so if someone walks into your shot covering a few miles, you must delete it.

taking photos of any highway is illegal.

flying over someone's home is illegal.

Taking a photo and someone's house appears must be deleted unless all homeowners give permission.

That's just a few that I read before just giving up. So what I'm really getting at is, are these laws voided because the FAA is the federal government and they are the ones who licensed me to fly in America's public airspace? While taking/studying for my license I really only came across what to do if the drone is prohibited from taking off/landing in an area (which I learned that this a legitimate law that can be implemented)

Also, the photography stuff also falling under the First Amendment rights.

RANTING: I don't see these laws applying to Helicopters or planes, if I really wanted to spy on someone I'd probably just use my binoculars or hook up my camera to a telescope.

This is an old story, McBride, FAA V. local laws. FAA correctly asserts all airspace jurisdiction but no challenges in federal court currently so locals keep getting away with it. I attended an FAA UAS seminar last Saturday and nothing has changed, we are in limbo. Until :

(1) A UAS company in a state with these stupid laws with a lot of cash takes the jurisdiction to federal court and prevails, or
(2) USDOJ or a local US Attorney files an action against the local jurisdiction (highly unlikely, they have better things to do) things will remain as they are.

Arizona, in the Legislature's infinite wisdom (can't believe I just used those two words together

) enacted a new law earlier this year. The statute is not only UAV friendly but placed the brakes on yahoos like upscale Paradise Valley and their draconian drone laws by including this gem:

"Except as authorized by law, a city, town or county may not enact or adopt any ordinance, policy or rule that relates to the ownership or operation of an unmanned aircraft or unmanned aircraft system or otherwise engage in the regulation of the ownership or operation of an unmanned aircraft or an unmanned aircraft system. Any ordinance, policy or rule that violates this subsection, whether enacted or adopted by the city, town or county before or after August 6, 2016, is void." Brilliant...

ps- I am not an attorney (too honest) nor play one on TV (too ugly), just a dumb, retired chief of police...

RMartin · Jun 1, 2017

licensed pilot said:
"Except as authorized by law, a city, town or county may not enact or adopt any ordinance, policy or rule that relates to the ownership or operation of an unmanned aircraft or unmanned aircraft system or otherwise engage in the regulation of the ownership or operation of an unmanned aircraft or an unmanned aircraft system. Any ordinance, policy or rule that violates this subsection, whether enacted or adopted by the city, town or county before or after August 6, 2016, is void." Brilliant...

ps- I am not an attorney (too honest) nor play one on TV (too ugly), just a dumb, retired chief of police...

Common sense and government; how refreshing.

As a side note: you probably had two parents which makes you ineligible to be an attorney.

licensed pilot · Jun 1, 2017

Steve@AerialImagesPro · Jun 3, 2017

Unfortunately a town or city is essentially a glorified home owners association. They can make and enforce any rule they want until challenged legally.

Maybe a lawyer out there can answer this but I don't think that breaking these 'ordinances' is an arrestable offence, most likely a fine.

The school one, I'd be wary of, but the others I'd ignore and battle in court if caught. It sounds like a case a paralegal could win PLUS court costs.

licensed pilot · Jun 3, 2017

"glorified home owners association" Hardly, breaking an HOA rule will not land you in jail, breaking a city ordinance can (depends on your state's constitution/laws). I don't like locals passing anti-drone ordinances, but I wouldn't advise anyone to "ignore" them.

Steve@AerialImagesPro · Jun 4, 2017

ordinance violations you get a ticket or fine. You don't get arrested for ordinance violations. Of course it depenends on the ordinance, but what we're talking about here (taking pictures of someone without their consent etc) is not offense.

licensed pilot · Jun 4, 2017

You are wrong Steve. Unless you've reviewed the constitution of each of the 50 states? In Arizona, the state where I spent 32 years a cop, there are city ordinances that can most certainly get you arrested. As I said before, the OP should research the local law before accepting any legal advice from a forum, which may be well intended but wrong.
FROM THE CITY OF PHOENIX CODE:

1-5 General penalty; continuing violations.

Except for civil traffic violations for which the maximum sanction shall be two hundred fifty dollars unless a specific other penalty is provided for, whenever in this Code or in any ordinance of the City any act is prohibited or is made or is declared to be unlawful or an offense or a misdemeanor or whenever in such Code or ordinance the doing of any act is required or the failure to do any act is declared to be unlawful, where no specific penalty is provided therefor, any person violating any such provisions of this Code or any ordinance is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars or imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or probation not to exceed three years or any combination of such fine and imprisonment, and probation in the discretion of the City magistrate. Each day any violation of any provisions of this Code or of any ordinance shall continue shall constitute a separate offense.

In addition to the penalties hereinabove provided any condition caused or permitted to exist in violation of any of the provisions of this Code or any ordinance shall be deemed a public nuisance and may be, by the City, abated as provided by law and each day that such condition continues shall be regarded as a new and separate offense.

(Code 1962, § 1-5; Ord. No. G-1864, § 1; Ord. No. G-2578, § 1; Ord. No. G-2753, § 1; Ord. No. G-3270, § 1)

Steve@AerialImagesPro · Jun 4, 2017

I hear you, and I'm not trying to give legal advice, which was why I asked for any lawyers out their to chime in.

I would just find it unbeleievable for someone to be arrested for taking pictures. I'm all about following the rules.... to a point. Nonsensical ordinances are begging to be challenged.

Id be curious to hear from a lawyer what he or she thinks about someone being arrested over taking what otherwise would be legal pictures.

licensed pilot · Jun 4, 2017

I'm with you on municipal stupidity, saw plenty during my time...

RMartin · Jun 4, 2017

Steve@AerialImagesPro said:
I hear you, and I'm not trying to give legal advice, which was why I asked for any lawyers out their to chime in.

I would just find it unbeleievable for someone to be arrested for taking pictures. I'm all about following the rules.... to a point. Nonsensical ordinances are begging to be challenged.

Id be curious to hear from a lawyer what he or she thinks about someone being arrested over taking what otherwise would be legal pictures.

The chances of a lawyer giving away free advice on a public forum is not too great. If you want legal advise, you need to hire a local aviation attorney who knows local laws. And yes, you can be arrested for "taking pictures", depending on where you are located and what you are taking pictures of (and what you do with the pictures you took afterwards as well).