Question re DJI's No Fly Zone override service

[Shazbot4]

section 333 exemption gives individuals permission to do commercial work with a r/c aircraft. you jump through all these hoops to get your certificate so you can flash this at DJI and they will let you turn off the no-fly zone if you happen to be in one to fly your i1.

it says dji will handle it case by case basis. does this mean you have to ask them to turn off NFZ's for a specific amount time in a specific place or will they just let you turn them all off for good?

next question, does this mean you can fly near the white house and other locations where drones are "not allowed" by b.s. rule xyz. is this a fly where ever i want and get away with it badge?

update: read post on heliguy.com

im all for paying 5 bucks to make the government happy to show im not some wack job whos going to crash it into a real airplane but believe me i think the majority are going to hack dji's software or just use something else when the next oo la la quad copter comes out. this is to much frigging work that can simply and easily be avoided by not using a dji product.

nothing about dji is fast and they can say no to your request for any reason they can think of. This is an absurd amount of preparation and planning. when i can take a 50 dollar r/c plane with a gopro duck taped to it and fly it anywhere at the drop of a hat, a i1 owner has to have a tail number, 2 months of paperwork, 2 certificates from the government and written permission from dji that all have to be approved to fly in the exact same spot and only for a limited amount of time.

yeah i2 i3 p4 p5 p6 are probably not going to happen. a company will come along and bypass all that crap and that will be the new best thing, a demand will be created and someone will supply it.

 

[lake_flyer]

Well, then they don't use a DJI, simple as that.

 

[The Editor]

section 333 exemption gives individuals permission to do commercial work with a r/c aircraft. you jump through all these hoops to get your certificate so you can flash this at DJI and they will let you turn off the no-fly zone if you happen to be in one to fly your i1.

it says dji will handle it case by case basis. does this mean you have to ask them to turn off NFZ's for a specific amount time in a specific place or will they just let you turn them all off for good?

next question, does this mean you can fly near the white house and other locations where drones are "not allowed" by b.s. rule xyz. is this a fly where ever i want and get away with it badge?

DJI acknowledge that in certain instances a no fly zone can be restrictive.
They have elected to offer an override to these restrictions but quite sensibly will only do this if an individual can show that they have a need to and have have undergone the certification process which demonstrates an understanding of air navigation/air space separation and safety protocols.
Unless you hold a valid CAA/FAA/CASA exemption unlock will not be granted.

Note: I have also changed the title of this thread to something a little more descriptive than "So lemmi get this strait"

 

[Shazbot4]

DJI acknowledge that in certain instances a no fly zone can be restrictive.
They have elected to offer an override to these restrictions but quite sensibly will only do this if an individual can show that they have a need to and have have undergone the certification process which demonstrates an understanding of air navigation/air space separation and safety protocols.
Unless you hold a valid CAA/FAA/CASA exemption unlock will not be granted.

yeah uh no. they have elected to offer and override for their restrictions only they imposed that is going to be the biggest pain in the *** for owners. its taking them almost half a year to repair my ground sensor, what makes you think they are going to be johnny on the spot to approve all these NFZ overrides?

 

[Shazbot4]

Well, then they don't use a DJI, simple as that.

you sir are correct. i'll have my inspire hacked so i'l still do what i want and believe me i wont be buying another dji anything ever. again

 

[lake_flyer]

Which is exactly the point DJI want to be clear.
DJI crafts will not be flying in any NFZ unless flown by a certified pilot with specific exemption. And soon the whole world will know that, thanks to people like you who are screaming this from the roof. You are a great help in execution of their strategie.

They're some pretty smart strategists at DJI, no argue about that at least.

 

[The Editor]

yeah uh no. they have elected to offer and override for their restrictions only they imposed that is going to be the biggest pain in the *** for owners. its taking them almost half a year to repair my ground sensor, what makes you think they are going to be johnny on the spot to approve all these NFZ overrides?

If you read my original post which triggered the creation of this thread and also the details on the site I linked to, you would see that this is simply a temporary measure whilst DJI implement a web based unlock solution for certified UAV operators.

 

[Shazbot4]

Which is exactly the point DJI want to be clear.
DJI crafts will not be flying in any NFZ unless flown by a certified pilot with specific exemption. And soon the whole world will know that, thanks to people like you who are screaming this from the roof. You are a great help in execution of their strategie.

They're some pretty smart strategists at DJI, no argue about that at least.

yeah. that certification is complete b.s. nothing there has anything to do with a persons ability to pilot an aircraft. it's just another way to feed the bureaucracy machine with another fee and bogus cert.

it does nothing to stop someone from flying dangerously and lets say they do hurt someone... who's going to spend the time to go after them in court, NO ONE.

i'll take the classes i'll file the papers but dji has to turn off all no fly zones for good and leave them off for my dji products permanently. then i'll play ball, untill then, no thanks.

 

[The Editor]

yeah. that certification is complete b.s. nothing there has anything to do with a persons ability to pilot an aircraft. it's just another way to feed the bureaucracy machine with another fee and bogus cert.

it does nothing to stop someone from flying dangerously and lets say they do hurt someone... who's going to spend the time to go after them in court, NO ONE.

i'll take the classes i'll file the papers but dji has to turn off all no fly zones for good and leave them off for my dji products permanently. then i'll play ball, untill then, no thanks.

And that is your opinion, of course which, you are entitled to.

 

[Shazbot4]

And that is your opinion, of course which, you are entitled to.

my opinion would be fact. unless you can show me where someone has to actually prove they can safely operate a r/c aircraft in front of a trained certified instructor who then and only then signs off and gives permission to do commercial r/c work?

 

[The Editor]

my opinion would be fact. unless you can show me where someone has to actually prove they can safely operate a r/c aircraft in front of a trained certified instructor who then and only then signs off and gives permission to do commercial r/c work?

This is not the purpose of this section (as was explained in the sticky at the top of this area).
I can assure you that what you describe is EXACTLY what I and all individuals have to go through to gain PFAW from the CAA.
A ground school, written examination, approved Ops manual authoring and a flight assessment with an NQE examiner. Up to 4 emergency procedures are thrown in during your flight exam and failure on any one of them means no certification.
Now can we please stop the stomping up and down with the "I want to fly my toy where I want" attitude?
If that is your wish, please go through the correct process and you will be granted certain exemptions under your countries air laws.

Can we now draw a line under this please - this is not the purpose of this section.

Thank You.

 

[lake_flyer]

my opinion would be fact. unless you can show me where someone has to actually prove they can safely operate a r/c aircraft in front of a trained certified instructor who then and only then signs off and gives permission to do commercial r/c work?

You're missing the point.
But you are clearly very outspoken about it and you will probably not take advise that's not supporting your statements (which are still not very clear, why is it THAT important for recreational flyers to be able to fly at NFZ's?).

Certification is 90% about learning and knowing the rules and why they are important and never to mess with. And how to apply them to the operation for your specific business. The rest is a test to see if you can follow the operational and safety procedures according to your operational manual safely---While flying VLOS, not being dependant on FPV, GPS or any automatic feature. And being able to elaborate intelligently on everything that happens during the procedure.

Believe me, once you finished ground school and write you Ops Manual you realise what it's all about and stop shouting like this. And probably start educating others.

After finishing ground school I actually felt ashamed about my previous (what I now can call) ignorance as a hobby pilot. Although it helped me to gain a lot of insights and made me the better pilot for sure.

If you want the freedom to play around, go for it, get any other no DJI copter out there and have your fun. I still don't see the point in fooling around with NFZ's just for recreational flying, except maybe for a club airshow with special exemption, which can be dealt with, on a case by case basis with a temporarily, one day valid NFZ unlock code . But that's all.

 

[lake_flyer]

This is not the purpose of this section (as was explained in the sticky at the top of this area).
I can assure you that what you describe is EXACTLY what I and all individuals have to go through to gain PFAW from the CAA.
A ground school, written examination, approved Ops manual authoring and a flight assessment with an NQE examiner. Up to 4 emergency procedures are thrown in during your flight exam and failure on any one of them means no certification.
Now can we please stop the stomping up and down with the "I want to fly my toy where I want" attitude?
If that is your wish, please go through the correct process and you will be granted certain exemptions under your countries air laws.

Can we now draw a line under this please - this is not the purpose of this section.

Thank You.

You beat me again!

 

[Shazbot4]

Don't get me wrong, I think there being some kind of certificate to get is great. I'll be first in line to sign up for it and get one myself if i see it worth the effort. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only AMA member here who actually contributes to the one organization that has made the biggest efforts for people wanting to fly majorly not at r/c fields. Do you guys have your AMA cards?

Here is the problem. The driving force for this discussion to get this FAA exemption is because of the restrictions DJI is putting on their product. If no fly zones didn't exist then believe me there would not be as big of a push to get certified, (if you can even call it that)

Just looking back at the history of DJI and how slow they are to give owners support and fix problems with inspires I can say with great certainty their "case by case" approval system to turn off a specific no fly zone for a amount of time is going to flop out hard. Just what kind of guidelines are they going to use to say yes or no? Their repair service is backlogged beyond belief and now they will also have people who just look at NFZ disabling applications? Lets get real here for a second, how worthless is the opinion of someone 1000's of miles away sitting on a computer to say yes or no you can or can't fly there? DJI is going to pay and train these people how to evaluate if a disabling code can be handed out? how long will it take for them to complete the approval process? I doubt anything will be fast or simple. Heck a application fee from DJI might be their solution.

I could go on and on with reasons and examples of all the technicalities they have to go through to hand out a release of a NFZ and it just drives home the fact they simply wont bother to take the time in the first place. Right of the bat I can see them saying "yes you can fly there, here is the code" and you find out it doesn't work when your on location with your client trying to turn on your inspire. how long will that take to correct? lol

I'm really hoping this turns out to be such a pain in the *** for DJI, it effects enough people and fails to work correctly like a lot of things with the inspire software that it just comes to the point where they ask for your 333 exemption papers and they give you free rain and just turn them all off permanently. Until then like others have said, hack it, or fly something else.

 

[The Editor]

Don't get me wrong, I think there being some kind of certificate to get is great. I'll be first in line to sign up for it and get one myself if i see it worth the effort. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only AMA member here who actually contributes to the one organization that has made the biggest efforts for people wanting to fly majorly not at r/c fields. Do you guys have your AMA cards?

Here is the problem. The driving force for this discussion to get this FAA exemption is because of the restrictions DJI is putting on their product. If no fly zones didn't exist then believe me there would not be as big of a push to get certified, (if you can even call it that)

Just looking back at the history of DJI and how slow they are to give owners support and fix problems with inspires I can say with great certainty their "case by case" approval system to turn off a specific no fly zone for a amount of time is going to flop out hard. Just what kind of guidelines are they going to use to say yes or no? Their repair service is backlogged beyond belief and now they will also have people who just look at NFZ disabling applications? Lets get real here for a second, how worthless is the opinion of someone 1000's of miles away sitting on a computer to say yes or no you can or can't fly there? DJI is going to pay and train these people how to evaluate if a disabling code can be handed out? how long will it take for them to complete the approval process? I doubt anything will be fast or simple. Heck a application fee from DJI might be their solution.

I could go on and on with reasons and examples of all the technicalities they have to go through to hand out a release of a NFZ and it just drives home the fact they simply wont bother to take the time in the first place. Right of the bat I can see them saying "yes you can fly there, here is the code" and you find out it doesn't work when your on location with your client trying to turn on your inspire. how long will that take to correct? lol

I'm really hoping this turns out to be such a pain in the *** for DJI, it effects enough people and fails to work correctly like a lot of things with the inspire software that it just comes to the point where they ask for your 333 exemption papers and they give you free rain and just turn them all off permanently. Until then like others have said, hack it, or fly something else.

Fine - now you have had your say (again) can we leave it please?
Temporary NFZ disable is currently available for certified operators in all countries and a web service will be launched (for certified operators) next month.
That's it.

 

[rtrhead]

Fine - now you have had your say (again) can we leave it please?
Temporary NFZ disable is currently available for certified operators in all countries and a web service will be launched (for certified operators) next month.
That's it.

Don't get me wrong, I think there being some kind of certificate to get is great. I'll be first in line to sign up for it and get one myself if i see it worth the effort. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only AMA member here who actually contributes to the one organization that has made the biggest efforts for people wanting to fly majorly not at r/c fields. Do you guys have your AMA cards?

Here is the problem. The driving force for this discussion to get this FAA exemption is because of the restrictions DJI is putting on their product. If no fly zones didn't exist then believe me there would not be as big of a push to get certified, (if you can even call it that)

Just looking back at the history of DJI and how slow they are to give owners support and fix problems with inspires I can say with great certainty their "case by case" approval system to turn off a specific no fly zone for a amount of time is going to flop out hard. Just what kind of guidelines are they going to use to say yes or no? Their repair service is backlogged beyond belief and now they will also have people who just look at NFZ disabling applications? Lets get real here for a second, how worthless is the opinion of someone 1000's of miles away sitting on a computer to say yes or no you can or can't fly there? DJI is going to pay and train these people how to evaluate if a disabling code can be handed out? how long will it take for them to complete the approval process? I doubt anything will be fast or simple. Heck a application fee from DJI might be their solution.

I could go on and on with reasons and examples of all the technicalities they have to go through to hand out a release of a NFZ and it just drives home the fact they simply wont bother to take the time in the first place. Right of the bat I can see them saying "yes you can fly there, here is the code" and you find out it doesn't work when your on location with your client trying to turn on your inspire. how long will that take to correct? lol

I'm really hoping this turns out to be such a pain in the *** for DJI, it effects enough people and fails to work correctly like a lot of things with the inspire software that it just comes to the point where they ask for your 333 exemption papers and they give you free rain and just turn them all off permanently. Until then like others have said, hack it, or fly something else.

I agree, it would be nice if DJI would make allowances for 333 waivers. After all if you have a pilots license and break the rules with your UAV, you would be putting your license at risk...

 

[World Media]

Devils advocate here .... isn't an exemption just that .... an exemption from requiring a licence ..... it doesn't necessarily follow that you are qualified and "licensed" to fly in a NFZ.

That said it is my personal belief that the removal of the NFZ should only be done with a written authorisation directly from the authority controlling the specific airspace and facility in which one wishes to fly and that that authorisation in itself should be enough to provide the lifting of the NFZ temporarily if specified.

It is important that those flying in and around NFZ's have the required knowledge of procedures, communication and risk for the airspace and facility. In my opinion the ONLY people qualified to asses this ( based on certification, experience discussion whatever parameters are deemed necessary ) are the controllers of the airspace affected. They are the ones that decide who flies where and at what altitude and with what restriction. Someone at DJI china is not qualified to make that decision.

 

[The Editor]

Devils advocate here .... isn't an exemption just that .... an exemption from requiring a licence ..... it doesn't necessarily follow that you are qualified and "licensed" to fly in a NFZ.

That said it is my personal belief that the removal of the NFZ should only be done with a written authorisation directly from the authority controlling the specific airspace and facility in which one wishes to fly and that that authorisation in itself should be enough to provide the lifting of the NFZ temporarily if specified.

It is important that those flying in and around NFZ's have the required knowledge of procedures, communication and risk for the airspace and facility. In my opinion the ONLY people qualified to asses this ( based on certification, experience discussion whatever parameters are deemed necessary ) are the controllers of the airspace affected. They are the ones that decide who flies where and at what altitude and with what restriction. Someone at DJI china is not qualified to make that decision.

Having CAA certification (at least in the UK) means you have attained the requisite level of competence both in ground school theory and flight assessment and emergency procedures. It also means you are familiar with ATC protocols and requirements and are very aware of where exactly you should or shouldn't be.
ATC (again certainly in the UK) must abide by a rule of equivalence, which means if a an authorized UAV operation requests clearance for flying in controlled airspace, that request must be treated the same as any other (manned) request. This would not happen if 'Joe Public' called ATC and asked to fly around a bit!
I do not believe that DJI or individual ATC's would be able to 'police' or vet each and every application but by ensuring that a NFZ override was only granted to certified individuals means that (in theory) the air navigation rules are adhered to.

 

[Mazz]

Devils advocate here .... isn't an exemption just that .... an exemption from requiring a licence ..... it doesn't necessarily follow that you are qualified and "licensed" to fly in a NFZ.

That said it is my personal belief that the removal of the NFZ should only be done with a written authorisation directly from the authority controlling the specific airspace and facility in which one wishes to fly and that that authorisation in itself should be enough to provide the lifting of the NFZ temporarily if specified.

It is important that those flying in and around NFZ's have the required knowledge of procedures, communication and risk for the airspace and facility. In my opinion the ONLY people qualified to asses this ( based on certification, experience discussion whatever parameters are deemed necessary ) are the controllers of the airspace affected. They are the ones that decide who flies where and at what altitude and with what restriction. Someone at DJI china is not qualified to make that decision.

Can't say enough how I agree with this statement. I do not agree with disabling NFZs personally. There is a reason they are there. We have plenty of other places to fly if flying for fun. Now when we need to breach a NFZ I also think it should come from no one else but the controllers of the air space. NOTAMs must be filed and it should only be allowed for the time they allow it. Then it is back to NFZ. It may be a logistical nightmare but safety first. Just one mans opinion.

 

[World Media]

Having CAA certification (at least in the UK) means you have attained the requisite level of competence both in ground school theory and flight assessment and emergency procedures. It also means you are familiar with ATC protocols and requirements and are very aware of where exactly you should or shouldn't be.
ATC (again certainly in the UK) must abide by a rule of equivalence, which means if a an authorized UAV operation requests clearance for flying in controlled airspace, that request must be treated the same as any other (manned) request. This would not happen if 'Joe Public' called ATC and asked to fly around a bit!
I do not believe that DJI or individual ATC's would be able to 'police' or vet each and every application but by ensuring that a NFZ override was only granted to certified individuals means that (in theory) the air navigation rules are adhered to.

Fully in agreement, the rules for licencing in the UK are considerably more robust than in the rest of the world, and as a licenced UAV operator you are effectively a qualified pilot with equal rights and responsibilities in the airspace for which you are licensed operationally. Therefore ALL correctly licenced pilots in the UK should have the UK NFZ's lifted as you have permission to operate by virtue of your licence. Rest of the world it would have to be the authority of the controllers of the airspace you are in on a one by one basis.