USA 90 Days notice is insane for Part 107

[Highrpm955]

My last request took 2 and a half months.... ridiculous.

 

[DrunkenCynic]

That's fast compared to me, lol

 

[Highrpm955]

That's fast compared to me, lol

Well, I think location to Class D, C, B has a lot to do with it. Im in Oklahoma, and this request was for a COA in 2 joined Delta's,... other than that, there is not another Delta for a hundred miles, and only 2 Charlies in the whole state. I would think that more congested areas take more time...I suppose.

 

[DrunkenCynic]

Mine was for a Class D area way south of New Orleans, this is a screen shot of the COA that had been approved for the same area (our fabrication yard and dock). I mainly wish that they had a system set up that lets you know the progress of the application. I already lost one "job" due to not receiving a yay or no from the FAA in time, that was on the edge of a D area also.

I have also started an excel spreadsheet that I fill out with screenshots of the application, that is a sore point also, first one I sent in I was surprised at NO confirmation email from sending in the request, not even an automated one.

 

[Highrpm955]

Mine was for a Class D area way south of New Orleans, this is a screen shot of the COA that had been approved for the same area (our fabrication yard and dock). I mainly wish that they had a system set up that lets you know the progress of the application. I already lost one "job" due to not receiving a yay or no from the FAA in time, that was on the edge of a D area also.

I have also started an excel spreadsheet that I fill out with screenshots of the application, that is a sore point also, first one I sent in I was surprised at NO confirmation email from sending in the request, not even an automated one.

Typical... treat you like a mushroom.. keep you in the dark and feed you sh*t.

 

[BigAl07]

FYI: If we can only survive up til October: This is when the scheduled release for the new LAANC System. Authorizations will only take minutes, not months [emoji322]

October is for a "Sampling" of airports (50 of them). The rest of the country will roll out some time later in 2018. Here's a link with more details:

Coming This Fall: Automated Airspace Authorization at U.S. Airports - AirMap

 

[Casey53]

October is for a "Sampling" of airports (50 of them). The rest of the country will roll out some time later in 2018. Here's a link with more details:

Coming This Fall: Automated Airspace Authorization at U.S. Airports - AirMap

Then you have to deal with DJI to unlock the area if this happens too??

 

[BigAl07]

Then you have to deal with DJI to unlock the area if this happens too??

Unless something changes yes I believe so.

 

[websiteauthor]

If/when we get to the point where commercial pilots can get immediate authorization at a large number of airports, I would hope that would put pressure on DJI to change their current NFZ setup.

 

[Casey53]

It would be nice if DJI had some way of unlocking all this NFZ stuff if you had a 107 license, or whatever country controls this pilot license and commercial stuff. No license, then leave them with the NFZ restrictions.

 

[Steve@AerialImagesPro]

I must be missing something. I'm on 1.09 firmware and I can launch my I1 in class B airspace with only a warning box that pops up. I can close the box and fly normally after I click on 'I have permission to fly......'

Now I only started the engines and flew up to about eye level as a test. Are you saying in a NFZ, your drone won't fly at all?

 

[Skydog]

Under a 333 exemption you can fly in controlled airspace as long as you have permission from the control tower first, and you can do that by calling the tower (with cell phone or transceiver), you don't need a waiver. Under 107 I guess you need a waiver.

The first question the tower will ask you is: "Is this a commercial or recreational flight?"
If your answer is commercial, their response will be - "You need to get clearance through the FAA."
If you your answer is recreational their response will be: "No problem. Let us know when you're done.
This is from personal experience.
Amateurs can have at it - but professionals must jump through flaming hoops before refusal.
What a tragically flawed system.

 

[William Gaddy]

The first question the tower will ask you is: "Is this a commercial or recreational flight?"
If your answer is commercial, their response will be - "You need to get clearance through the FAA."
If you your answer is recreational their response will be: "No problem. Let us know when you're done.
This is from personal experience.
Amateurs can have at it - but professionals must jump through flaming hoops before refusal.
What a tragically flawed system.

Yeah it's a bit bass-ackwards at the moment. I have a 107 Class Bravo waiver application in for near my office in Brisbane, CA (right North of SFO runways 28R and 28L) and It'll probably be December before final approval. Meanwhile some dude flying for fun was screaming around in a 1:6 F16 jet RC in the same location last month -- all he had to do was call the KSFO tower. "Sure buddy, safe flying, stay under 300 AGL, and call us when you're done".

 

[Casey53]

Yeah it's a bit bass-ackwards at the moment. I have a 107 Class Bravo waiver application in for near my office in Brisbane, CA (right North of SFO runways 28R and 28L) and It'll probably be December before final approval. Meanwhile some dude flying for fun was screaming around in a 1:6 F16 jet RC in the same location last month -- all he had to do was call the KSFO tower. "Sure buddy, safe flying, stay under 300 AGL, and call us when you're done".

Doesn't one of the Google boys own a F-16 housed at Moffet Field? I've seen their large blue helicopter with the word Google in yellow on the belly flying low over surface streets.

If you got the money..... - or just buy a permit and do as you please.

 

[William Gaddy]

Doesn't one of the Google boys own a F-16 housed at Moffet Field? I've seen their large blue helicopter with the word Google in yellow on the belly flying low over surface streets.

If you got the money..... - or just buy a permit and do as you please.

Yeah, I think they actually do. But this guy was flying a 1:6 nitro powered jet, he was tearing s*** up. Very cool. Fast sucker, too, I think this thing was getting like almost 100 knots of air. Rich boys and their toys!

 

[BigAl07]

Meanwhile some dude flying for fun was screaming around in a 1:6 F16 jet RC in the same location last month -- all he had to do was call the KSFO tower. "Sure buddy, safe flying, stay under 300 AGL, and call us when you're done".

While I understand and agree with your frustration you're not exactly comparing apples to apples.

A) Our MultiRotors don't need an airfield to take off and land so in theory we can fly from just about anywhere on the planet and not from the same location 2x. This is a logistical nightmare when you're trying to mitigate risk and keep air travel safe. Our MR's can hover and fly with no pilot input for extended periods of time and can fly autonomously from GPS location to GPS location. Our MR require little to no real flying skills (although more is better) to take off and fly around a new area and if the operator quits operating the controls the MR simply hovers in place. Lost Comm with MR and the aircraft autonomously Returns To Home with no human interaction (no aircraft avoidance etc)

B) The F16 cowboy requires a LOT of real estate to make a safe take off and landing and odds are he is flying as part of a club etc that already has a Letter of Agreement in with the airport. Other than exhibition flights and vacation flights most "planks" will fly from the same field week after week after week. Also the F16 is probably minimally self stabilized (in that it can't hover and fly with no pilot input) and is not able to fly "autonomous missions" from way-point to way-point. The F16 requires a crap load of flying skills and the first moment the pilot "quits flying" the F16 contacts Terra Firma HARD.

Now if you just want to debate apples to apples (hobby vs Part 107 MultiRotor use) that's a whole new ball of wax. Keep in mind that the FAA would absolutely LOVE to regulate (and heavily if allowed) Hobby UAS flights but our US Congress tied their hands in 2012 in respect to Hobby flights. I'm sue at some point the playing field will be leveled and the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 will re rolled back and more logical regulations will be pushed out on all sectors of our industry. Without the deep pockets of lobbyist to "incentify" the politicians hopefully some form or "LOGICAL" rules will come around.

 

[William Gaddy]

While I understand and agree with your frustration you're not exactly comparing apples to apples.

A) Our MultiRotors don't need an airfield to take off and land so in theory we can fly from just about anywhere on the planet and not from the same location 2x. This is a logistical nightmare when you're trying to mitigate risk and keep air travel safe. Our MR's can hover and fly with no pilot input for extended periods of time and can fly autonomously from GPS location to GPS location. Our MR require little to no real flying skills (although more is better) to take off and fly around a new area and if the operator quits operating the controls the MR simply hovers in place. Lost Comm with MR and the aircraft autonomously Returns To Home with no human interaction (no aircraft avoidance etc)

B) The F16 cowboy requires a LOT of real estate to make a safe take off and landing and odds are he is flying as part of a club etc that already has a Letter of Agreement in with the airport. Other than exhibition flights and vacation flights most "planks" will fly from the same field week after week after week. Also the F16 is probably minimally self stabilized (in that it can't hover and fly with no pilot input) and is not able to fly "autonomous missions" from way-point to way-point. The F16 requires a crap load of flying skills and the first moment the pilot "quits flying" the F16 contacts Terra Firma HARD.

Now if you just want to debate apples to apples (hobby vs Part 107 MultiRotor use) that's a whole new ball of wax. Keep in mind that the FAA would absolutely LOVE to regulate (and heavily if allowed) Hobby UAS flights but our US Congress tied their hands in 2012 in respect to Hobby flights. I'm sue at some point the playing field will be leveled and the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 will re rolled back and more logical regulations will be pushed out on all sectors of our industry. Without the deep pockets of lobbyist to "incentify" the politicians hopefully some form or "LOGICAL" rules will come around.

I wouldn't call the F16 modeller a cowboy, he was doing everything required of him by law, regulations, and morality... there just seems to be a double standard. And I agree this is Congress's mess. BTW I am also an AMA member in addition to Part 107, so I'm not advocating for stricter control of model aircraft

 

[kcobello]

What you can do with a sUAS far exceeds the common model aircraft. Carrying payloads, precise flying at slow speeds, carrying a camera are the things that worry the "officials" A friend that works for an oil company sat in a meeting with"officials". Their main concern is stated above, I will leave it at that. So for the time being I think we will be kept in check. So my thinking is I am going to get as much education, info, certs in the next few years and kinda wait things out before investing anymore in this industry.

 

[Skydrone]

Hi everyone, just joined and while browsing around saw this thread. Had to pipe in since I have had quite a few COA's approved and rejected. Just in case you thought it was getting better....
A quote of the latest email I got for a COW filed June 1st (request was for period Aug thru January 2018)... Note that January would have been 7 months from the date I filed. (COA's are for short shoots, COW's are for extended periods of time shoots, I requested daytime shoots, 1 per month for 6 months). In June, when I applied, the COA and COW were both stated at a 90 day turnaround....

"Thank you for submitting your airspace waiver request to operate under Part 107.41. The FAA is making every effort to process airspace authorization requests as quickly as possible. Air Traffic Control facilities are currently identifying those areas where authorizations can be approved without adversely impacting the safety of manned flight, developing and implementing local procedures to support Part 107 operations, and training the Air Traffic Control workforce.


Unfortunately, the airspace waiver request you submitted was not submitted within enough time to allow proper processing as determined by the start and end dates listed on your application. Airspace waivers currently take approximately six months to process. This is due to the complexity of the analysis associated with processing an airspace waiver and high demand for such relief. Therefore, we will not be able to process your request in time to support your planned operation.


If you still require an airspace authorization or waiver, please resubmit your request to allow enough time for proper processing. When submitting, please take note of the differences between an airspace authorization and an airspace waiver as this distinction may impact processing time:

• 
  
• Authorizations are appropriate for operations that are in compliance with the UAS Facility Maps for the designated airspace. Airspace authorizations are typically processed within 90 days of their submission.
  
• Waivers are appropriate for operations that are not in compliance with the UAS Facility Maps for the designated airspace. Airspace waivers require safety justification as dictated by 14 CFR 107.200 and guidance for these applications can be found in the Performance Based Standards document on the online application portal. Processing airspace waivers requires extensive analysis and coordination on the part of the Federal Aviation Administration and therefore requires a significantly longer processing time.
  

We apologize for this inconvenience as we improve and streamline the Part 107 airspace authorization and waiver process.




Respectfully,


Air Traffic Organization Emerging Technologies, AJV-115"


The sad thing is that all 6 shoots were at same location, a progress video of a construction site. Once a month I would go video tape the progress then return next month and film from same spot. I had a COA approved for the same area, a one week shoot (and yes, took all 90 days to get that one approved). I am getting the impression that the FAA is just going to make it as difficult as possible to operate as a commercial UAS pilot in hopes we will all just give up. I know government is slow, but this is just rude....

 

[William Gaddy]

@Skydrone Yeah WAIVERS are even a bigger PITA than AUTHORIZATIONS. The problem with long term waivers is some dude/gal sitting in DC has to physically examine your application and noodle it. With an authorization, all they generally do from what I've been told is check the UAS facilty map (if available), and if not available, they call the 107 subject matter expert at the controlling airport and ask "should this dude be allowed to fly 200ft AGL at so-and-so long and lat?" Sounds like your app was for a long-term waiver in an area that actually has a UAS facility map, and your request was above it, and you didn't cite proper comms procedures with the tower. They kick those back from DC just to avoid the paperwork.