X3 codec Flicker still there in X5

damoncooper · Oct 3, 2015

I just started analysis of available original X5 video footage on the wall sized Sony 4K display and as suspected the backend of the X5 appears be the same 60Mbps codec / processing engine as the X3, complete with encoding bugs and the dreaded flicker. Sigh.

***NOTE: if your preferred output format is less than 4K at 70" diagonal or you plan on uploading to YouTube you probably haven't noticed this with the X3 and won't care about this with the X5.***

damoncooper · Oct 3, 2015

Uploaded

Mark C · Oct 3, 2015

Oh...crap....had my fingers crossed...but sigh....thanks for the info...

InterMurph · Oct 3, 2015

That shot is overwhelmed by the moire caused by videotaping a TV. I can't see anything beyond that.

damoncooper · Oct 3, 2015

InterMurph said:
That shot is overwhelmed by the moire caused by videotaping a TV. I can't see anything beyond that.

Do it yourself then.

howard rockliffe · Oct 4, 2015

Apologies for my bluntness, but that is a ridiculous 'test' to publish. You're filming a TV screen! (Shakes head and walks away.....)

damoncooper · Oct 4, 2015

howard rockliffe said:
Apologies for my bluntness, but that is a ridiculous 'test' to publish. You're filming a TV screen! (Shakes head and walks away.....)

Yes. That's because I watch it, it's my main output device, it's a 4K wall-sized 4K Sony TV, and I am showing what I see when Inspire X3 or X5 footage is played back.

This only happens with X3 or X5 footage.

GH4 or X5R footage is fine.

damoncooper · Oct 6, 2015

I'm out for X5. X5R maybe, but I need more footage to analyze.

padrino · Oct 6, 2015

I agree with some of the other posters, great discussion but a taped screen without frame syncing the source and capture will introduce record flicker regardless of what your eye actually sees.. In short it does more harm than good posting that..

damoncooper · Oct 7, 2015

padrino said:
I agree with some of the other posters, great discussion but a taped screen without frame syncing the source and capture will introduce record flicker regardless of what your eye actually sees.. In short it does more harm than good posting that..

Maybe you missed this part:

Doesn't happen with GH4 or the little X5R footage I've analyzed. Only X3 or X5 footage.

Morgon · Oct 7, 2015

I definitely get what you're saying, @damoncooper... but I also understand what they're saying -- Perhaps you could record a similar video of the TV is playing GH4 footage so that the 'flickering' can be shown to be the source video itself and not your phone's recording of it.

damoncooper · Oct 7, 2015

Morgon said:
I definitely get what you're saying, @damoncooper... but I also understand what they're saying -- Perhaps you could record a similar video of the TV is playing GH4 footage so that the 'flickering' can be shown to be the source video itself and not your phone's recording of it.

I don't need to do any further analysis on my end. I posted this as a courtesy/heads up.

I'd suggest that anyone who is considering the X5 do their homework before buying to be sure it suits your particular intended usage.

It doesn't meet my expectations for large format 4K display and everyone should do their own due diligence.

doctordrone · Oct 28, 2015

is it the auto exposure changing that is flickering? I just tested my X5, and I get a jittery/flickering of the exposure when the auto exposure adjusts. I'm not sure if its adjusting the aperture, shutter speed, or iso. I suspect its the iso. But it's very irritating. I called DJI, and they want me to send them the camera. So I'm bummed to be without it for a month, right after I paid $6k for the package!
Heres my sample:

howard rockliffe · Oct 29, 2015

doctordrone said:
is it the auto exposure changing that is flickering? I just tested my X5, and I get a jittery/flickering of the exposure when the auto exposure adjusts. I'm not sure if its adjusting the aperture, shutter speed, or iso. I suspect its the iso. But it's very irritating. I called DJI, and they want me to send them the camera. So I'm bummed to be without it for a month, right after I paid $6k for the package!
Heres my sample:

I have experienced something similar and need to address this with DJI. However, what I see in your video appears to be something different. It looks like, what we used to call 'hunting' where the camera exposure meter is trying to ascertain the correct exposure.

The problem is, if you want to lock the shutter at 50 or 100fps, with shutter priority, which is ideal, and then shoot auto exposure, then the camera adjusts the aperture. It seems to do so in 'steps' rather than a smooth transition. I'm assuming this is normal (?) In reality it is not good practice to shoot anything that allows the adjustment of the exposure during filming, as this should be done manually and locked. However, there are times where when the adjustment of exposure during filming is necessary. It may be due to changing cloud cover, or it may be during a pan from a light area to a darker area. In these instances it's obviously desirable for the camera to alter the exposure in some way. If you want to lock the shutter, which you should, then the only other way apart from the camera changing the ISO, which IMO is equally undesirable, is for the camera to change the aperture. I have to admit, although a pro photographer and previously TV cameraman, I have very little experience shooting video with DSLRs. Perhaps someone can chip in here and offer some information and advice.

Quadpilot · Oct 29, 2015

OK, just a little clarification on camera terminology, Howard. I'm sure you meant to say 1/50 sec or 1/100 sec for shutter priority, right? Then you say that the camera adjusts the aperture: this is wrong, it adjusts the ISO with the EV adjustment, even with AE lock. The aperture will remain wide open for some inexplicable reason (not ideal for max sharpness).

I have found the camera controls on the app confusing in the extreme on the X5. It doesn't behave as I would expect when I use the EV wheel in S or A mode, and to confuse things further AE lock is a another variable. On my DSLR (Canon 1DX), when I set aperture priority, the shutter value changes according to the EV compensation I have set (0, +0.3, -1, etc). Vice versa for shutter priority. Never mind about ISO safety shift. In shutter priority on the X5 the app will change the ISO value instead and lock the aperture at wide open, with exceptions.

Manual is the only sure-fire way I have found to control both aperture and shutter speed to your desires and vary the ISO setting (or use of an ND filter) with the EV compensation wheel.

I encourage everyone to thoroughly explore the various settings before flight, as flying time is precious and it's hard to pay close attention to the effect of Auto, A, and S settings when you're trying to keep $4500 from encountering Newton's Third Law in a negative way.

Mark C · Oct 29, 2015

It seems to me that fully manual is the way to shoot with the X5 to get consistent results.
Am I right?

Quadpilot · Oct 29, 2015

Mark C said:
It seems to me that fully manual is the way to shoot with the X5 to get consistent results.
Am I right?

In one word, yes.

howard rockliffe · Oct 29, 2015

Quadpilot said:
OK, just a little clarification on camera terminology, Howard. I'm sure you meant to say 1/50 sec or 1/100 sec for shutter priority, right? Then you say that the camera adjusts the aperture: this is wrong, it adjusts the ISO with the EV adjustment, even with AE lock. The aperture will remain wide open for some inexplicable reason (not ideal for max sharpness).

I have found the camera controls on the app confusing in the extreme on the X5. It doesn't behave as I would expect when I use the EV wheel in S or A mode, and to confuse things further AE lock is a another variable. On my DSLR (Canon 1DX), when I set aperture priority, the shutter value changes according to the EV compensation I have set (0, +0.3, -1, etc). Vice versa for shutter priority. Never mind about ISO safety shift. In shutter priority on the X5 the app will change the ISO value instead and lock the aperture at wide open, with exceptions.

Manual is the only sure-fire way I have found to control both aperture and shutter speed to your desires and vary the ISO setting (or use of an ND filter) with the EV compensation wheel.

I encourage everyone to thoroughly explore the various settings before flight, as flying time is precious and it's hard to pay close attention to the effect of Auto, A, and S settings when you're trying to keep $4500 from encountering Newton's Third Law in a negative way.

Thanks, and yes, I did mean to say 1/50 or 1/100 sec! My brain is getting older

I think you're right, the best way is to use manual exposure, regardless. I have found setting the correct exposure rather odd, compared to using my 5D.

The Editor · Oct 29, 2015

doctordrone said:
is it the auto exposure changing that is flickering? I just tested my X5, and I get a jittery/flickering of the exposure when the auto exposure adjusts. I'm not sure if its adjusting the aperture, shutter speed, or iso. I suspect its the iso. But it's very irritating. I called DJI, and they want me to send them the camera. So I'm bummed to be without it for a month, right after I paid $6k for the package!
Heres my sample:

Please do not double post as it is against our forum rules - thank you.

You started a separate thread on this issue here X5 Auto Exposure Flickering | DJI Inspire Forum which I commented on.
Additionally, there will shortly be a firmware update for the X5 to address the poor sharpness although this is more to do with the low pass filter - There is currently no mention of exposure tracking speed/improvement change I'm afraid.

The_Learning_Curve · Nov 5, 2015

Hello, im new to photography, so this thread alone has already brought up some terms and theories to study. But yes, I am experiencing this flickering issue outside of the center of screen. The middle seems consistent, but its sooo far from quality recording. Everything has been kept on auto. Tapping on the screen as needed to focus. I actually had to start recording in 1080 due to my current laptop playback performance with 4k. I started thinking it wouldn't be as bad in 4k, but im probably wrong. Ill break down some of your suggestions with the manual settings, I hope this wont be a permanent issue as I do intend on using this for commercial purposes, attorney has me all straightened out with what I need and im two weeks away from demonstrating for some contract deals. Ive been an rc enthusiast for 10+ and im soooo impressed with flight performance and user interface. But as far as the camera stuff, not impressed with the results. But ill just say its a user issue, for now