USA Unlicensed use in my area
- Thread starter skydancz
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You honest enough to do the right thing by getting certified. Now you have to decide how bad you want the butter on your bread by either reporting these people or missing out on your livelihood. On my website I state that a 107 is required so my potential customers would be aware that's required. Unless they dabble in drones, they wouldn't know any better. I'd like to hear what your reporting method would be.
Best of luck!
Best of luck!
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IMHO, unless you know for certain, reporting someone falsely could result in litigation if they are able to find out who reported them. I know firsthand that any business can be tough (especially this business) but I suggest caution.
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On my homepage of my website I do have my Cert number that I am licensed and I talk a little bit about operating legally through that license and the various challenges it sometimes presents. My first and main customer clearly stated when she contacted me that there real estate company specifically stressed that they must find people who are licensed. I talked to a friend of mine and he had a good idea to promote my business online and with flyers etc , and explaine the legality information in the advertisement. IDK if that is the best Idea, but its better than reporting I think.
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If I was a customer, I don't think the law would give a **** about me wrt hiring a pilot that was licensed or not. Laws don't protect the customer, they only protect the pilot if he needs one. It makes good professional sense to be licensed and advertise the fact, but a customer just wants the job done for the cheapest price.
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The FAA. Probably won’t do much unless an unsafe condition presents itself. Maybe if the unlicensed pilot advertises they would. But doesn’t sound like the guys you are dealing with are doing thar. The FAA pribay has a lot lot of bigger fish to fry and aren’t really there to police income intrusions.
On the other hand you can blatantly advertise commercial work with better equipment better skills and lower liability for your customer. In the end it’s all about selling yourself and making sure your quality is better that the hobbyist with a new mini that probably won’t continue doing work.
There’s always going to be unscrupulous operators in any business. They tend to sort themselves out over time.
On the other hand you can blatantly advertise commercial work with better equipment better skills and lower liability for your customer. In the end it’s all about selling yourself and making sure your quality is better that the hobbyist with a new mini that probably won’t continue doing work.
There’s always going to be unscrupulous operators in any business. They tend to sort themselves out over time.
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I most definitely agree and Im trying to separate myself from the competition with a higher skill level, more experience and a better product. Unfortunately the only competition that seems to present itself right now is myself whining and not marketing.
You can’t get in trouble in the slightest for reporting someone, even if you’re wrong and they DO have a license. This is not a Liable situation and you can’t be sued.
Question to OP, how can you be 90% sure they aren’t licensed? its pretty easy to lookup a person or business on FAA website. If you don’t know the name, then how can you sat they aren't licensed?
I’ve found that in my area, if you think you can’t make money as a licensed pilot because you think non-licensed pilots are stealing your business, you’d be mistaken.
The type of client that wouldn’t bother to care about whether their pilot is licensed or not, aren’t going to pay a price that’s worth it for a pro, so are you really losing that business?
I make quite a bit of money from clients that want quality work and that make it a point to use licensed and insured vendors. It took me a while, but once I got one, well paying client, that led to more and more.
if you’re trying to make money in single home real estate, forget it, there’s no market there. Too many realtors dont want to pay more than $100 for a shoot, OR the realtors have their own Mavics and do it themselves.
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Litigation nation.....LOL anyways yeah if I did report, I certainly wouldn't be worried. Its a very small area and I guess that is the problem. I think I know who did it but not 100 on it. I definitely highlight on my website that I provide a higher level of editing service on the backend in post, than most of your average guys that ran out to buy a Mavic Pro 2 and maybe passed the test. I have highlighted my editing skills the most when trying to gain a new client. They also don't realize how much of a difference of having an I2 is, in the drone business. I saved for that equipment for months, but they don't at all understand its much greater abilities in the UAV world, of course if you know how to take advantage of its professional abilities. Yes I realize I can look it up but Im just gunna drop it and focus on marketing the right kind of client. My in law works for this business and when I asked her it was a very evasive response like O well I have know Idea who does it or if they had someone do it and its not any of my business anyways.Licensed or not there going to get done what they need to get done. The guy she was dating was the person that I followed on Instagram and seen alot of aerial content this summer off his instagram. He worked with her (my inlaw) at this business and I still think he works there. The shots and the way they were done in the marketing content pretty much tells me that it was definitely the same aircraft that he had in the past. Right around when the Mavic 2 pro came out is when he got one, he had a picture posted on instagram of the Mavic2 pro this summer.
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Unless you are a lawyer with experience in defamation and/or slander, your opinion is no more valid than mine.
Huh?? So it's your opinion that you can be sued if you report someone and you're wrong?? Seriously?
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I think you're coming at it from the wrong angle. I agree that most people probably aren't that concerned if who they hire is licensed or not (how many people hire a handyman who isn't a licensed plumber or electrician because they're cheaper?) and the FAA just doesn't have the resources to look into it unless they are flying over large crowds or in restricted airspace. However, I'm assuming that since you are trying to do this the proper and legal way, that you do have liability insurance? Along with promoting your Part 107, I would STRONGLY promote you're also insured. Many 'hobbyists' don't bother with insurance either and believe me potential clients WILL pay attention to a possible liability when pointed out to them. After all, if an accident or incident happens on their property, they're liable as well. Promote that, along with your license and experience, and explain this is what they are paying extra for. Smart business owners will understand this immediately.
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Licensed or not, if you're being undercut, you're being undercut. Getting the 107 doesn't add that much to one's overhead. So getting undercut probably has little or nothing to do with whether or not he's certified. So I don't think reporting him is going to help. I've never reported anybody because those guys tend to work for 100 bucks anyway. So they're not really my competition.
Bottom line, this is a tough, tough business. I get work because I started many years ago (pre-333 days) and have a good reputation for delivering a quality product. I would hate to be in a position of having to ESTABLISH a reputation in this environment. I think Cat Eyes nailed it. Most customers don't give a flying hoot about certifications. The secret is to find a market that DOES care. So instead of turning in bottom feeders, let them bottom feed and you move on to better markets. This is why I gave up real estate years ago. That's a total bottom feeder market. All they care about is not paying more than $100. I can't live on that. That said...
When I first started out, COMMERCIAL real estate was a good market for me. Those invoices were $1000-$2000 for a finished, delivered video, and $500-$1000 for just the raw footage. I charged $1/mile each way for out-of-town jobs, but any more these days, I charge $100/hour portal-to-portal. So maybe look into commercial real estate markets.
Nowadaze, the more "official" markets that I enjoy are film and mapping. I also do construction progress videos, but that seems to be a fluke market, as I'm the only drone pilot I know with a couple regular construction clients. But I digress...
I wish I had better advice for a beginner. It's like the college/job conundrum. You can't afford college if you don't have a job, but nobody will hire you if you don't have a college education.
I would say focus on promotion of your company and more importantly, the quality of your product. When I started off, I focused on value, NOT price. Try to think of yourself as a Mercedes in a Chevy Nova market, and market yourself accordingly. If you find the right market, "cheap" will actually scare clients away. Let the bottom feeders fight each other for the bottom feeder gigs. They're actually doing you a favor...believe me.
I also focus less on the "drone" aspect of what I do and more on the quality and delivery of product. For example, for film I sell myself as a camera operator with a drone, as opposed to a drone operator who also knows how to run a camera. And for mapping I sell myself as a mapper with a drone, as opposed to a drone operator who knows about mapping. You get the point.
All that said, again, I'm pretty well established...so take this advice with a grain of salt. It's a different market now than it was when I first started off.
Good luck!
D
Bottom line, this is a tough, tough business. I get work because I started many years ago (pre-333 days) and have a good reputation for delivering a quality product. I would hate to be in a position of having to ESTABLISH a reputation in this environment. I think Cat Eyes nailed it. Most customers don't give a flying hoot about certifications. The secret is to find a market that DOES care. So instead of turning in bottom feeders, let them bottom feed and you move on to better markets. This is why I gave up real estate years ago. That's a total bottom feeder market. All they care about is not paying more than $100. I can't live on that. That said...
When I first started out, COMMERCIAL real estate was a good market for me. Those invoices were $1000-$2000 for a finished, delivered video, and $500-$1000 for just the raw footage. I charged $1/mile each way for out-of-town jobs, but any more these days, I charge $100/hour portal-to-portal. So maybe look into commercial real estate markets.
Nowadaze, the more "official" markets that I enjoy are film and mapping. I also do construction progress videos, but that seems to be a fluke market, as I'm the only drone pilot I know with a couple regular construction clients. But I digress...
I wish I had better advice for a beginner. It's like the college/job conundrum. You can't afford college if you don't have a job, but nobody will hire you if you don't have a college education.
I would say focus on promotion of your company and more importantly, the quality of your product. When I started off, I focused on value, NOT price. Try to think of yourself as a Mercedes in a Chevy Nova market, and market yourself accordingly. If you find the right market, "cheap" will actually scare clients away. Let the bottom feeders fight each other for the bottom feeder gigs. They're actually doing you a favor...believe me.
I also focus less on the "drone" aspect of what I do and more on the quality and delivery of product. For example, for film I sell myself as a camera operator with a drone, as opposed to a drone operator who also knows how to run a camera. And for mapping I sell myself as a mapper with a drone, as opposed to a drone operator who knows about mapping. You get the point.
All that said, again, I'm pretty well established...so take this advice with a grain of salt. It's a different market now than it was when I first started off.
Good luck!
D
The flyer and other way of advertising suggestion above is very good, I was thinking of it before I readit. I would make sure the target company gets a mailing, email, even a personal visit where you inform, describe, suggest the law and the need for insurance etc etc specially considering it is an amusement park or something where people could be unaware on the ground, just for informational purposes of course. A advertising blast all over your target area with such information might make those unaware more informed and possibly steer business your way without having to resort to throwing someone under the bus.
Doesn't the FAA occasionally get involved if a person posts to any site that is monetized such as FB or YT? I recall people getting schwacked by the FAA for posting to YouTube without having a Part 107 because there are ads on FYT; same as FB. Responding to the question or statement regarding the FAA's non-involvement with unlicensed operators. I don't think that the FAA has started ignoring this... or maybe they have.
Regarding the OP, if you approach the operator and say "Hey buddy, you're on my turf", the social attitude being what it is today, you'll probably get told to bugger off and mind your own business or worse. All I would recommend is present a better product than they do and the results should speak for themselves. Advertise!
Kev
Regarding the OP, if you approach the operator and say "Hey buddy, you're on my turf", the social attitude being what it is today, you'll probably get told to bugger off and mind your own business or worse. All I would recommend is present a better product than they do and the results should speak for themselves. Advertise!
Kev
