D-Log or D-cinelike

Stratospheric · Jun 3, 2018

Hi all

At present we are still using H264 and I was wondering which profile set up to use. Up until now I have told our pilot to use D-cinelike because I heard log added artefacts.

I realise this is a basic question but please don't have a go at me because of it and say I should have known this. I am not the pilot and don't touch our drone. I am the techy guy that sits in the background and edits the videos. I am also the one who does all the research for our company as the pilot is running two companies so doesn't have time to research anything.

Thanks

Stratospheric · Jun 6, 2018

86 views and no responses! Come on guys I need some advise here!

Quadpilot · Jun 6, 2018

Stratospheric said:
Hi all

At present we are still using H264 and I was wondering which profile set up to use. Up until now I have told our pilot to use D-cinelike because I heard log added artefacts.

I realise this is a basic question but please don't have a go at me because of it and say I should have known this. I am not the pilot and don't touch our drone. I am the techy guy that sits in the background and edits the videos. I am also the one who does all the research for our company as the pilot is running two companies so doesn't have time to research anything.

Thanks

Yes, D-Cinelike is your best option for recording in H.264

Stratospheric · Jun 6, 2018

That's what I thought but the just thought I would check!

mmarian · Jun 6, 2018

I

Stratospheric said:
That's what I thought but the just thought I would check!

I agree. D-Cine gives you better starting point in post yet enough flexibility. You just need to be careful, as the files respond better and with less degradation to some adjustment tools than to others. I use Premiere and I can attest that that is certainly the case.

Joseph DeSalvo · Jun 9, 2018

What about using the h265 codec over the h264? Is there a significant advantage?

rmb · Jun 9, 2018

No advantage that I can see as a professional edited and color grader. And H.265 file can be a real pain to deal with depending on your system.

My 2 cents

Jerdog3 · Jun 9, 2018

Having used Dlog and D-Cinelike on multiple projects and then working with them in post I can say that I prefer D-Cinelike as it is much easier to color grade for me and the files are cleaner without as much noise. Dlog also locks your ISO which I feel contributes as to why artifacts and noise are a problem. Also I have found that choosing a custom light temp of 5200-5300k in daytime will really help pull down the strong magenta issue that the X5s has. I shoot in Prores 422 but the color characteristics of the H264 files that record simultaneously are very similar.

EpicJib · Jun 9, 2018

Great advice here. DJI’s magenta issue seems to be a problem with the WB when using manual WB. Auto seems to dial in the WB color temp and tint controls behind the scenes but can’t be locked in. When you select manual, the WB is out to lunch as you cannot adjust the tint. So setting it to 5200-5300 for daylight does get it closer. DJI needs to add a tint control or just get the WB correct in the first place when using manual. My GH4 has a tint control and it’s method of taking a picture and shooting a gray card works perfectly to adjust both controls.

Jerdog3 said:
Having used Dlog and D-Cinelike on multiple projects and then working with them in post I can say that I prefer D-Cinelike as it is much easier to color grade for me and the files are cleaner without as much noise. Dlog also locks your ISO which I feel contributes as to why artifacts and noise are a problem. Also I have found that choosing a custom light temp of 5200-5300k in daytime will really help pull down the strong magenta issue that the X5s has. I shoot in Prores 422 but the color characteristics of the H264 files that record simultaneously are very similar.

Jerdog3 · Jun 9, 2018

EpicJib said:
Great advice here. DJI’s magenta issue seems to be a problem with the WB when using manual WB. Auto seems to dial in the WB color temp and tint controls behind the scenes but can’t be locked in. When you select manual, the WB is out to lunch as you cannot adjust the tint. So setting it to 5200-5300 for daylight does get it closer. DJI needs to add a tint control or just get the WB correct in the first place when using manual. My GH4 has a tint control and it’s method of taking a picture and shooting a gray card works perfectly to adjust both controls.

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Yes, I agree DJI needs to allow the locking of the white balance. I don't understand why they don't. I also have several DSLR's as well as a GH4 that have that function. I even have a Yuneec drone that has that function. Only problem with that drone is the camera is a potato and useless for commercial imaging. Lol

Donnie Frank · Jun 9, 2018

Stratospheric said:
Hi all

At present we are still using H264 and I was wondering which profile set up to use. Up until now I have told our pilot to use D-cinelike because I heard log added artefacts.

I realise this is a basic question but please don't have a go at me because of it and say I should have known this. I am not the pilot and don't touch our drone. I am the techy guy that sits in the background and edits the videos. I am also the one who does all the research for our company as the pilot is running two companies so doesn't have time to research anything.

Thanks

"Log" algorithms are industry standard. What I like about shooting using a "log" algorithm is I understand the math. It's as close as you're going to get to RAW without shooting RAW. My experience has been that log really opens up the color space and dynamic range a good 2 or 3 stops. I don't remember the actual numbers and don't feel like looking it up. I've used D-Log for every film I have shot, which has been about a dozen as of this writing. No complaints so far. And if you're shooting low light or deep shadows, LOG is a MUST.

Remember this: The flatter (more washed out) your raw footage LOOKS, the better your editor will like you. Until DJI publishes the Cinelike numbers, I think it's a safe bet to go with what you know. Every camera company has their own version of the log color space. The math is time-tested. Shoot D-log.

Edit: I should qualify this advice by saying it really depends on who you are delivering to. If you're delivering to a professional colorist, shoot D-Log. If you're just shooting for yourself, D-Cinelike is probably easier to work with. Hell, for that matter, shooting the "Normal" color space is easier yet. So it really depends on your objective and who you're handing the footage to.

RB30x · Jun 9, 2018

Does anyone have a LUT file they use for their X5S? I've tried shooting D-Log and using the DJI LUT with small changes and its doesn't look too good, probably better shooting in Normal. I haven't even tried Cinelike as all the research I did pointed me to D-Log.

mmarian · Jun 9, 2018

Joseph DeSalvo said:
What about using the h265 codec over the h264? Is there a significant advantage?

Based on everything I've read there is not. The files might be a touch smaller thanks to more advanced compression algorithm but in terms of quality or DR there is apparently no discernable difference. Not sure if anything has changed lately but there were also some issues reported with Premiere not being able to play back the h.265 smoothly.

Ralph thompson · Jun 10, 2018

I stoped using dlog a while ago and switched to cinelike. Also added an IR/UV blocking filter. Theoretically dlog is better but in fact, the low low bandwidth 8 bit video can’t tolerate much post processing. So it defeats the reason to use dlog. As most people have attested, the dlog image breaks down quickly in post with lots of noise and poor colour. Cinelike seems to work very well, just get the exposure right, fix the WB to daylight (or whatever the conditions are) then reduce contrast and sharpness. I increase saturation but others disagree on this.

MrTVR · Jun 11, 2018

Ralph thompson said:
I stoped using dlog a while ago and switched to cinelike. Also added an IR/UV blocking filter. Theoretically dlog is better but in fact, the low low bandwidth 8 bit video can’t tolerate much post processing. So it defeats the reason to use dlog. As most people have attested, the dlog image breaks down quickly in post with lots of noise and poor colour. Cinelike seems to work very well, just get the exposure right, fix the WB to daylight (or whatever the conditions are) then reduce contrast and sharpness. I increase saturation but others disagree on this.

I agree. Having played with D-log footage from various lighting conditions we have found that the low quality 8 bit colour doesn’t provide enough latitude to guarantee a good colour grade without some horrible image artefacts.

Even 10 but colour can be problematic so 8 bit is a non starter IMHO.