UK CAA SUA Fees

[NickU]

Hi Guys,

First post on here - I'm in the process of obtaining my PfCo - ground school passed & busy writting the Ops Manual now. I've just been browsing around the CAA's website and spotted they're just opened a consultation on their fees for the next year or two... seems as SUA operators we're giving them a headache and costing them too much time and money, and they want to recover that from us (looking to recover £100K/pa). They're proposing to increase the current fees they charge from £112/£224 (0-7Kg/7-20Kg) initial app to a flat rate £170, and the renewal to a flat rate of £128.

Also....

Those wanting to go outside the standard permissions are facing a fee increase from £112/£224 to £1190. (Guess that means Night Flying, congested area/close prox work etc).

Renewals won't allow any updates to your manual as they do now - that will be classed as a variation and charged as such....

Variations requiring an admin change go to £56, and a technical change to your manual goes to £170 for the first hours work & £170/hr thereafter. Where " ‘Technical Change’ refers to any changes that materially affect the nature of the operation and are likely to require subsequent assessment or approval by the CAA. Examples include, changes to operational procedures and/or processes, significant organisational changes or amendments to Operational Safety Cases."

Renewals of expired permission charged at full rate as is new permissions.

You can have your say on the consultation up to Feb 2017 - Statutory charges 2017/18 consultation - Civil Aviation Authority - Citizen Space

Guess that means I need to get the Inspire2 into Vol 2 of my manual before I submit it!, and certainly before April next year!!

Feel free to read the CAP and tell me I've got it wrong.... I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not hopefull!

Nick

 

[roninsteel]

Lol guess prices will be going up for our services, [emoji23]those are some hefty changes, [emoji23][emoji23]

 

[The Editor]

Hi Guys,

First post on here - I'm in the process of obtaining my PfCo - ground school passed & busy writting the Ops Manual now. I've just been browsing around the CAA's website and spotted they're just opened a consultation on their fees for the next year or two... seems as SUA operators we're giving them a headache and costing them too much time and money, and they want to recover that from us (looking to recover £100K/pa). They're proposing to increase the current fees they charge from £112/£224 (0-7Kg/7-20Kg) initial app to a flat rate £170, and the renewal to a flat rate of £128.

Also....

Those wanting to go outside the standard permissions are facing a fee increase from £112/£224 to £1190. (Guess that means Night Flying, congested area/close prox work etc).

Renewals won't allow any updates to your manual as they do now - that will be classed as a variation and charged as such....

Variations requiring an admin change go to £56, and a technical change to your manual goes to £170 for the first hours work & £170/hr thereafter. Where " ‘Technical Change’ refers to any changes that materially affect the nature of the operation and are likely to require subsequent assessment or approval by the CAA. Examples include, changes to operational procedures and/or processes, significant organisational changes or amendments to Operational Safety Cases."

Renewals of expired permission charged at full rate as is new permissions.

You can have your say on the consultation up to Feb 2017 - Statutory charges 2017/18 consultation - Civil Aviation Authority - Citizen Space

Guess that means I need to get the Inspire2 into Vol 2 of my manual before I submit it!, and certainly before April next year!!

Feel free to read the CAP and tell me I've got it wrong.... I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not hopefull!

Nick

That's fine because obviously that means their level of service, communication and turn around times will go up by the same proportion - yes?

 

[NickU]

Of course! It couldn't possibly do otherwise. Could it...?

Perhaps they should join the gig economy - paid a piece rate for the number they can complete as quickly as possible.

 

[The Editor]

Of course! It couldn't possibly do otherwise. Could it...?

We all know nothing will change except our bank balance will be lighter.
How the hell can they justify a 125% increase in costs just for renewals with no amendments?
Oh, let's all blame Brexit.

 

[apsussex]

How interesting and I bet they still keep a handful of staff to do anything. I have night permissions on my PFCO now, so this will be interesting if I actually get charged to renew this next year.

Maybe they have joined Euro USC and had advice about charges.

 

[The Editor]

Maybe they have joined Euro USC and had advice about charges.

- I didn't think about that. Maybe Euro are consultants for the CAA now!!!!

 

[NickU]

I think they're justifying it by the amount of work SUAs are giving them. Too many ops manuals/OSCs with big technical words being submitted - or maybe they've seen the way forward from a few of the more salubrious ground schools and decided that if they can get away charging for a new aircraft being flown, then so can the CAA.

"we now face significant financial pressures with increases in our cost base as well as the need to make crucial investment in modernising our systems" and...
"Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS): Our work on airspace safety issues posed by unmanned drones has been funded up to now by the Department for Transport (DfT). However, we believe the £500,000 that this work costs should be funded by commercial aircraft operators rather than the UK taxpayer as it is part of our core regulatory function. We propose that we recover these costs from the Air Operator Certification Scheme variable charges."

They're aiming for.... "The overall increase in income generated for 2017/18 is expected to be approximately £100k".... should be enough to employ a few more dogsbodies and tea makers

edit... you beat me to the EuroUSC - I wasn't going to mention names

 

[Cyclops]

Thanks for posting this information NickU.

What exactly is meant by a 'Technical Change' is up for grabs. Does this include changing an Inspire 1 for an Inspire 2?

From the doc - 12. ‘Technical Change’ refers to any changes that materially affect the nature of the operation and are likely to require subsequent assessment or approval by the CAA. Examples include, changes to operational procedures and/or processes, significant organisational changes or amendments to Operational Safety Cases.

At the moment my understanding is that we are allowed to update our operating manual on an ongoing basis with no requirement to inform the CAA every time we make a minor change within the overall framework of the manual. These changes are then submitted once a year when renewing the permission.

So will this change is my question.

 

[NickU]

I think it may.... The way I've read it is that any change at renewal will need to be paid for. It'll only be a simple renewal fee if there's no changes at all. I guess minor changes like company name kind of info will be charged at the admin rate, anything that is bigger than that will be technical... And incur the extra charge. So yes, I'm assuming that means adding/changing a bird during the year will be a technical charge - paid during the year or at renewal depending on when you submit the changes. Either way, you pay... Simples.

I think they're trying to work to a simple rubber stamp job gets the lowest fee, anything that needs reading, or checking over by anyone other than a YTS apprentice (showing my age there ) gets a higher fee, and anything that eats hours like a new OSC gets the penalty rate .

It'll do one or two things.... Earn them a packet, or slow the deluge. I guess they win either way!

 

[Simon Mallin]

With my CAA PFAW needing renewal (to PFCO) in a couple of months time, I'm curious as to what the CAA deem to be chargeable administration changes within the Op's Manual.

I have had to change document and terminology references following the publication of ANO2016 (Instigated by the CAA) and incorporated copies of my current PFAW and Insurance certificates (an annual update). Can anybody tell me if in their experience either or both of these will (wrongly IMHO) trigger an additional administration charge of £57?

Thanks

 

[MarkLincs]

Personally if the CAA was to charge 499 i'd pay it and be happy to pay it.

it'd stop people charging silly cheap rates.

 

[The Editor]

Personally if the CAA was to charge 499 i'd pay it and be happy to pay it.

it'd stop people charging silly cheap rates.

Those kind of prices would only make more people drop out of the professional game and operate illegally.
There is no 'policing' as such so nothing to stop them!
I'm not saying that's right but unfortunately that's the reality of what would happen if renewal costs went up to those sort of figures.

 

[MarkLincs]

Companies are now catching on to asking for a CAA PFCO and valid insurance.

As for policing it, thats now the Police responsibility and funny enough they do investigate.

Example someone flew Lincoln Cathedral and the CAA told Lincolnshire Police to investigate it.

Policing does happen but you don't hear of half the stuff that does go on in the background.

But as for the prices on renewal I'll just agree to dis-agree

 

[Simon Mallin]

With my CAA PFAW needing renewal (to PFCO) in a couple of months time, I'm curious as to what the CAA deem to be chargeable administration changes within the Op's Manual.

I have had to change document and terminology references following the publication of ANO2016 (Instigated by the CAA) and incorporated copies of my current PFAW and Insurance certificates (an annual update). Can anybody tell me if in their experience either or both of these will (wrongly IMHO) trigger an additional administration charge of £57?

I queried this with the CAA who have come back to me and said :

'We charge one flat fee of £130 for a renewal. We do not charge for any amendments made as every application will undergo the same checks.'

Good to know.

 

[SimonMW]

Perhaps the CAA should consider stopping the silly practice of asking us to renew every single bleedin' year! If it really is taking up so much of their time, it would seem like the brainy thing to do to ask for renewals every other year or more!

 

[SimonMW]

Just read through the official docs. £173 per hour for procedural changes etc (which I assume includes operational procedures for any new type of aircraft you add) is overly steep.

I wouldn't mind, but, frankly, actual work has been ridiculously thin on the ground, mainly due to ultra cheap operators who literally seem to work for food. So thin that I'm considering selling up since the effort and costs just do not seem worth it.