UK Adding to / changing an organisation's OM

[Ranger Bob]

Hi everyone

I'm down for PfCO training in May but a manager has asked I give him an idea of how this is going to impact on the OM we already have. As I don't have a full picture of all the requirements I wonder if it is possible to gain some answers to a few questions?

Two other staff members in a different region acquired their PFAWs a couple of years back with a NQE that no longer exists (you know the one!)

They obviously compiled an OM for this which I have a copy of. Am I correct in thinking that I must use this for my OM or do I compile my own new one as part of my training? I believe the OM relates to the business rather than the individual so it would seem sensible to have only one (but 'which one'?)! If this is indeed correct then is it simply a case of re-submitting this OM with new pilot and aircraft details plus any other changes we decide on through experience? Does it matter that I will do a PfCO whereas the others had PFAWs (or does theirs change to PfCOs when I put the 'new' OM in)?

Finally, does it matter that the first NQE can no longer review the OM annually (as 'required' in it) - is this a legit thing that your NQE has to do or is/was it another of the infamous £schemes£ they were known for?

Thank you

Bob

 

[jborden]

You are doing a CAP-C or BNUC-S course that is based on you. The CAA has issued your organisation with a PfAW, or if been renewed recently a PfCO.

It doesn't matter which NQE you used for the training, what matters is that your OM is up to date and still relevant (some NQEs have very different ideas of what and how much detail to include). So in theory, if your OM is good, still fit for your organisation, then you will just need to update to add yourself, additional UAV, and safety procedures.

Once your original OM has been approved, it doesn't need to be approved again (assumptions made that you are operating same weight category of craft and not going for any special operational safety cases).

The updated OM doesn't even need submitting to the CAA until renewal time.

 

[Ranger Bob]

Jborden - thanks for your reply. So looking at your last paragraph am I right in thinking that I do Ground School, sit the theory test, do a flight test but don't have to submit the OM to the CAA?

I'm double-checking this because it looks like my colleagues will need to send in the annual renewal soon and before I do my training! That means it would be nearly a year before my details and the new aircraft details (same weight category) are included?! If I'm not in the renewed OM (but I have my PfCO) can I still fly commercially legally?

Alternatively, can the imminent renewal include these new details on the assumption that I'm going to get qualified (even though technically at the time of renewal I won't be) and I just add in to it my PfCO when I get it?

Bob

 

[jborden]

Hi Bob,

Yes you are correct - do ground school, sit your theory, do your flight test and get your recommendation from the NQE. Upadate your organisations OM to include your details, UAV, safety procedures and so long as you are operating by the OM you are ready to fly commercially.

You them just submit your ops manual to the CAA at the next renewal. Simples!

Obviously make sure you insurance covers you/any new equipment as well (although it might just cover your organisation so you could be covered automatically, but best check).

 

[gazza95]

Hi

I'm slightly curious as to why you are submitting an OM to the CAA. Surely if your company submitted the OM to the CAA and got a PFAW you just need to be added to this and their insurance. The OM will probably specify what training you need to do to be added as a pilot.

You would need to submit to the CAA if you are a different division and want to have your own PfCO and insurance.

Gary

 

[jborden]

Renew or change a permission to fly drones for commercial work | UK Civil Aviation Authority

• complete form SRG 1320, ticking the Renewal box and send to [email protected]
• resubmit your operations manual, highlighting any changes and also provide proof of applicable insurance requirements
• provide logbook evidence of at least 2 hours total SUA/SUSA flight time in the last 3 months preceding your application

 

[Ranger Bob]

Thanks for the info and clarification so far - it helped tremendously today. A query was raised however that I'm not sure of - can you train up on how to fly an aircraft during working hours (i.e. when at your job)? I get paid to be at work so if I flew at work in order to gain competence (the build up to my flight test for instance) would I be receiving 'commercial gain' and therefore be flying illegally? This could be any issue if, say, a person or property became damaged as a result of the training flight. The existing PFAW/PfCO holders could also be affected by this if they train on a different kind of aircraft so I'm guessing there must be some kind of permission here but can anyone define it for me - thanks.

Bob

 

[gazza95]

Bob, if you practise during company time on company property then this is not for commercial gain. Commercial gain involves a client of some description. You would however need to ensure your company insurance covered this situation as would your colleagues.

You do not need CAA permission to practise while at work on company property. As an example a farmer using a drone on his own property for his own purposes does not need CAA permission.


Gary

 

[bluelight.support]

Bob - the question that jumps to mind is the same as has been mentioned- if your company already has an ops manual then it would say in there what training each member was required to have- and id be very worried if i had a manager who was asking me questions like they are asking you regarding this - as the responsible manager of the company would know all about this as they would be named in the manual - and if they didn't have the answers you are asking, they have no business being the responsible manager!

I wouldn't be comfortable providing any advice here without understanding your current company and their uav permissions. You probably would also not be insured in your companies policy as it stands without training and flight sign-off both from your companies training manager or NQE sign-off.

 

[Ranger Bob]

Thanks for your answers. I should have made it clear that the guy asking the questions has nothing to do with the UAV side of things (he is a 'team manager' rather than the the responsible manager for the OM who is in a different part of the organisation). There is a training requirement stated in the OM which was clarified by them yesterday, and we would be covered by the organisations insurance. My fault for the misunderstanding; I was caught off guard by the question and didn't think to contact the RM first before posting here (duh - still a bit new to this side of things!)

Bob

 

[LeonA]

Bob, if you practise during company time on company property then this is not for commercial gain. Commercial gain involves a client of some description. You would however need to ensure your company insurance covered this situation as would your colleagues.

You do not need CAA permission to practise while at work on company property. As an example a farmer using a drone on his own property for his own purposes does not need CAA permission.


Gary
[/QUOTE
You do not need CAA permission to practise while at work on company property. As an example a farmer using a drone on his own property for his own purposes does not need CAA permission.]



That's interesting you mentioned this. I was recently informed by a well known NQE in the north east that a farmer using a drone on his own land would require PfcO if the data being collected or job performed was of commercial benefit to his business. Any clarity about this information as I have a farmer client considering a serious investment without permits!!

 

[bluelight.support]

I think insurance would come into play - as the farmer would not be insured if the drone hit an employee or member of the public for example if there was no liability insurance, which is not obtainable for a farmer or commercial entity without the proper training. While the farmer would be using the drone for business use (as the insurer would well argue) training would be a given !